haji81872 wrote Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:01 pm:Miracle Max type of miracle.

He definitely said "to blathe"

The Raiders are taking the football risk if Garoppolo's foot doesn't heal effectively because Hoyer and O'Connell are not a reasonable QB plan. In particular, McDaniels is taking a big risk because he may not survive to benefit from a high draft pick if Hoyer and O'Connell end up starting and can't scratch out a reasonable number of wins.

However, Garoppolo is taking the financial risk because if he can't pass a physical in the offseason then the Raiders won't owe him a dime. This doesn't mean that it's a high risk, just that Garoppolo is the one to bear it and he didn't have a lot of leverage in the situation because it didn't seem that there were a bunch of other suitors and the Raiders are the best football situation for him by a lot.

I'm still happier with this situation than another year with Carr. I would be even happier if we had taken a QB in the draft I have more belief in - Hooker, Levis, Haener. Time will tell.

Some people just want to talk about Carr..... so now you'll see his thread in the Raider Forum topic list. If your brilliant post about Carr without a hint of Garoppolo in the Garoppolo thread seems like it vanished, you can post it again in this thread and get your post count up. Win Win. Wait, I probably shouldn't say "win-win" in the Carr thread......

The fact that the tweet doesn't exist is just proof positive of the conspiracy against the Raiders. The NFL doesn't want you to know.

https://twitter.com/moemoton/status/1660097337891364874?s=61&t=H-71iqhOou1PAzspz_Ofcg

Lmao I don't think there is anything in sports I care less about than what jersey number guys wear. And Carr didn't do enough to generate even a single thought about whether it's too soon for someone to wear #4.

could they convert some of that into a roster bonus? By "they" do you mean the Raiders or the team they trade with. The Raiders wouldn't want to convert it to a roster bonus as they've already eaten a sizeable roster bonus for Renfrow this year.

Basically if you trade him then the team he's traded to has to absorb the full cap hit post-trade, but then can convert about $5.5 million to a signing bonus spread over 5 seasons so they have about $1 million from salary this year and about $1.1 million cap hit from signing bonus this year. And then they worry about the cap ramifications later, like you worry about your credit card bill coming after you've already enjoyed your new Traeger for a month.

We could trade Renfrow anytime between June 1 and the trade deadline and it will work for us. If we wait then his trade value could go down or up, depending on the desperation of the other team and depending on his success. I can see his numbers being pretty pedestrian because I think he'll be in primarily in 3WR sets, which we weren't running a ton last year. Adding to the D is more important than having the luxury of Renfrow IMO. I'd love to get a decent D player in return, but player for player trades are pretty rare.

You make valid points Chucker. However, I still think Kid Rat is a QB's wet dream (forgetting his record as a head coach). As a OC and head coach, he has a long proven track record of success working with MANY QB's (Robert Griffin, Hoyer, Schaub, Ryan, Colin whatever his name is, Mullins, Beathard, and Purdy). It will be interesting to see how JG operates without Kyle. I am hopeful about JG and it would not be surprising if he stunk up the joint or was a top QB in the league. I struggle with giving him much credit when working under his father or Kubiak, because I tend to count those as OC development years with someone else really in charge of the offense - which is when he worked with Griffin and Schaub.

His career really started as the top offensive guy in the building with Cleveland where they were 27th in points in his one year as OC there - hardly success for Hoyer. Matt Ryan was already a very good QB and obviously got even better under Shanahan so that's a real success, despite the SB disaster.

In SF, Mullens and Beathard had some flashes but I can't really call them successes unless developing future backups is the yardstick. They both lost a lot more than they won - but that's not a knock against Shanahan, just proof that he can't turn garbage into gold which is just normal. Purdy is a success so far obviously. He never worked with Colin Sackorpick, if that's who you're referring to as the Colin.

Garoppolo is a guy who's solidly midpack IMO - kinda like the more expensive guy we moved on from. The injuries are a concern though. Garoppolo had a couple of nice starts with McDaniels too, before getting injured as usual.

Yeah Jimmy isnt flashy, but he is a very solid QB. The only issue I have with him is he cant stay healthy. If he was a guy that stayed healthy for 4 or 5 straight years, I think he would be held in much higher regard.
When he is on the field, he wins. He wins, and the team scores points. Lots of people will point to Shanahan and the D being the only reason they win, but Garoppolo is 38-17 under Shanahan, and Shanahan is 52-46 as head coach of the Niners. Shanahan is 14-29 in the regular season without Garoppolo starting. Purdy looked great after Garoppolo went down though and that casts more shade on Garoppolo I guess.

Thanks for sharing. This is great news and for once, we get the advantage. I love that KC has to give up a home game as well (usually us). And we aren't playing KC after their bye week or after their Thursday game.

It sucks for me (and probably some others here) that we're playing a Monday night game on Christmas Day though..... and we played a night game Christmas Eve last year.

If you're running an offense that doesn't make your WR unhappy at times, then you're probably doing it wrong because you're catering to one guy instead of creating the best offense. I don't care what Adams thinks - this is a guy who chose to leave an offense that had back to back NFL MVP at QB. Great player but he's an elite player at a diva position and so the diva is gonna shine through sometimes. He'll play great regardless.

You have to draft QBs in this game and hope to hit on one. I think it was posted before, but this video is great because you can see he has confidence, intelligence, accountability and a real understanding of the game. All of those are more important than elite arm talent IMO.

The odds are stacked against O'Connell ever being a good NFL player - but honestly they're stacked against most first rounders getting there too.

If you haven't yet watched this, give it a look. And if anyone has a link to any real video breakdown (aside from the usual highlight reel stuff that makes everyone look good), I'd love to check it out. It's koolaid time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJDRgPtCfcw

It's blasphemous to say this as a Canadian, but I'm not a Tragically Hip fan. They were way overplayed long ago and I never loved them and then got so sick of them I never wanted to hear their music again. Despite me not being a fan, I never understood why they didn't gain traction outside of Canada, because they were so popular here. Maybe I was right and the rest of Canada was wrong?

Maybe Tucker can be a good punt returner in the NFL. But kickoff returns are a lot different than punt returns and Tucker had 5 punt returns in his entire college career - not really enough to evaluate IMO. And kickoff returns aren't worth much in the NFL any more. I hope he's useful as a WR.

Jacobs has been given a contract, he just hasn't signed it. I get that he's going to try to get a long term deal, but I'm not going to feel sorry for the guy. $10 million isn't bad money. The reality is that no RB has gotten a contract bigger than that the last couple of years and I expect the downward pressure on RB contracts to continue. He may decline to sign the tag for a while, even into the season, and it is what it is.

powski wrote Wed May 03, 2023 11:50 am:Nobody knows how good the draft was, but even ridiculous takes are more fun than saying nothing.

I like the immediate draft grades and opinions. It's pretty comical when they are put out there like they are facts though.

One thing about the draft is that it may tell you something about what the staff thinks of the roster, and what the plan is going forward.

I came into this draft thinking Garoppolo was a one year stopgap, and came out thinking that he might actually be the plan going forward. I don't love that, partly due to the injury history, and partly because I want a higher ceiling, given who we have to compete with in the division. Mahomes is the definition of elite, and Herbert could get there too if the new OC is as big an upgrade as I think he is. I feel like our draft target was Haener - whose pro comp seems like Garoppolo. Given what we did in the draft, I'm wishing even more that we'd re-signed Stidham.

I came into the draft thinking they were pretty happy with the oline group, and came out thinking that the draft confirmed it somewhat. I guess it's possible we'd have drafted Paris Johnson, but I don't think so and there's no way of knowing because they aren't going to tell us.

The Seahawks got bad grades for their draft last year...... and now after one year that same draft looks great. Turns out guys have to play in the NFL before you know what they are as NFL players. And if you think Deandre Washington is better than Marshawn Lynch, then you still might not know.

https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1645970709607497728?s=20

There's no way that Renfrow gets cut as there is almost no cap savings from cutting him. There's also not much cap savings from trading him, but there is trade compensation and he'd be worth more in a trade this year than after this year, because he's cheap to an acquiring team this year.

The draft is over, but the work isn't. We'll add some players in the next few weeks that will play important roles. There are good players still unsigned, and there will be more after some releases from other teams as they drafted the "next guy" at a position. There will be trade opportunities too and we have a ton of cap space available if we decide to move cap hits around.

My guess is Hoyer is odd man out so by default does that mean O’Connell is 2nd? One would think.

And if he’s holding a clipboard when we draft Drake Maye next year? Fine with me.

But point stands as you note: right around the time to take a flyer on a QB. No other position warrants that, not even close. IMO Hoyer is not the odd man out. I believe he's more likely to be back in 2024 than Garoppolo

I feel like we would need to attach a pick and eat some salary to move Renfrow today. We've already eaten salary, because we've paid his roster bonus in March. Renfrow is a $7.3 2023 million cap hit to a team that trades for him today.

We save just $3 mlllion this season if we trade him today - the real savings for the Raiders would come next year. I know that's not what the cap tables on the cap sites don't say that but those are made assuming that he's traded prior to payment of the roster bonus and that date is long gone.

Unpopular opinion but I think Renfrow is a bit overrated on this board I could see us trading Renfrow if we can - he doesn't really have the flexibility to play outside but both Adams and Meyers are really good in the slot. It just opens things up a lot if you can move everyone around. Our third highest paid WR is the 26th highest paid guy in the NFL - that's pretty crazy.

Plenty of talent still on the board. I wish we had another second rounder.

Wrong. I award you zero points, etc.

Last year we didn't know who we would be drafting, and it looked like Jones still had something left in the tank.

He's a great pick. All true. Plus Wilson will likely be on the field with Jones in plenty of passing situations this year. Then we likely move on from Jones in 2024 and invest that cap elsewhere.

It's ok to have a different view though..... there was no chance we'd all agree on this. I'm comfortable with the pick because Ivan is opposed to it - that's a great sign.

Thought I would differentiate between the weeks long talk about rounds 2-7 and isolate it as we look to try to get a couple of more starters or near-full time starters. We have the 38th, 70th, and 100th picks.

I am still looking for more defense, as in, I am hoping that 2 of those 3 are defenders. My top needs are:
CB, OT, DT.. Then S, LB, G I don't think OT is a need. Guard is a bigger need IMO. But both are behind CB and DT and LB for me. I won't be mad at a QB pick at any time either though.

Jeevo wrote Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:47 pm:I wouldn't have taken him for us but if he's a very good starter for several years at G then it won't be a bad pick for them.

I think the coaching staff likes the oline more than draft twitter thinks they do.

GoodTimeCharlie wrote Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:42 pm:That’s one of the cruelest moves made by “Big Cellular”, sticking stupid people’s phones on caps-lock. Smh

Flybono would flame you right now if he could. Go to the Saints board and post that and see if he pops up.

You're fine to overpay Jones when the guy replacing him is on a rookie contract. A real vet to learn from, and guarantee his efficiency per snap will increase as he's not worn down by a full time snap count.

If Wilson is as advertised, I see this as a big win. Agreed completely. We might get some value from Jones' contract just from the development of Wilson this year.

It's not a deep draft for edge players. We need CBs too and there's depth at that position. I love the Wilson pick.

I think we'll see Maxx and Wilson and Jones all on the field together in passing situations this year. And Jones getting less snaps - he'll be overpaid but we'll get more out of him - not many guys can play the volume that Maxx can. By year two, Wilson could be one of those guys.