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Re: Mark Davis finally speaks

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  Xramfan » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:05 pm

RaidersNFLReject wrote Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:03 pm:after what Mark Davis said, at least we know that Gruden wasn't lying about wanting to keep Mack.
If you believe everything Mark Davis says.....

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  RaidersNFLReject » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:14 pm

but why would Mark Davis lie about the Mack trade? :thinking:

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  Jeevo » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:07 pm

RaidersNFLReject wrote Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:03 pm:after what Mark Davis said, at least we know that Gruden wasn't lying about wanting to keep Mack.
All those who blamed Gruden for the lack of communication raise your hands.

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  Jeevo » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:50 pm

RaidersNFLReject wrote Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:14 pm:but why would Mark Davis lie about the Mack trade? :thinking:

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Ahhh Bubbles. A good, if slightly off kilter, Canadian.

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  vtraider » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:31 am

I've read through this entire thread in the last day and some of the posts are downright concerning and some laughable. Everything from posters wanting Carr give because he : is a Bible thumper, didn't fall in line with group think mentally, dared to have beliefs of his own, but yet even with these he's a pussy. Mentally soft can't handle teammates and even some very bailed subtle (and maybe I'm reading it wrong) insinuations that he divided the team because he's racist.

Along with gruden is the worst hc in the history of football. Doesn't know what he's doing. In over his head. Should be fired half a season in we should hire someone else but make sure we give them enough time to turn this thing around. (I guess that's about 8 games right?)

I liked Mack as a player and would have loved for him to retire as a raider. The two couldn't come to an agreement for whatever reason. Maybe it was Mack being greedy. Maybe it was Mark being cheap. Maybe it was his agent playing both off of the insecurities of the other. He's not here anymore. Sucks but have to move on and what we got in return is damn good for a player that reportedly wanted out

To Mark is an idiot who knows nothing and should stay out of football decisions but should absolutely fire Reggie and interview and hire someone who knows football ( get the irony? He doesn't know football but should interview to see if perspective GM's know football). To he's a spilled Coke head who likes women off ill repute (rumors but who wouldn't have been spoiled growing up like he did) who is too cheap to pay Mack so he should go and sell the team because he owes us fans more. ( When actually he owes us nothing. It's his business. If you don't like his business then don't support it. If I don't like Walmart I don't shop there. It's easy)

There is so much division even in this thread why do we as a people have to vilify someone because their opinion is different from ours. I see it day in and day out in politics and yes football is my escape from that. It sucks that the team isn't doing good. But it's a tear down and very few players will survive just so none of the coaches survived. The gm might and might not survive.

Now I know there will be reading between the lines of my posts. It's the way the world works. Go ahead and try to make me out as the devil for trying to be a voice of reason., The fact that I didn't defend anyone of color so I'll be branded a racist when actually it's just that the principle players coaches and owner being discussed are white.

My point is that people will find issues with whatever side of the fence they are on whether political. Race. Rich is poor. But honestly it's just football. Don't let a damn game make you tear others down just because they don't share your opinion. You don't have to stoop to that level. Just admit that we are all different and different isn't evil. There aren't hidden motives. It's just different.

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  RI RAIDER » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:04 am

Thoughtful post. The only part of the post that I think you are wrong with is your statement that Mark should have stayed out of football decisions. I think he has clearly done that for the most part. The only mistake he really made was initially going to the wrong people to get advise (Madden, etc.). I understand why he did because of the trust factor, but this is how we ended up with RM. The only thing RM did was fix the cap (which was actually done by others in the organization). I do not hate the man, and in fact liked him. However, other than catching the perfect storm in the draft one year, has done nothing. He has squandered picks and whiffed continuously on his hires. He now must pay the price after this season and I wish him good luck. As far as Gruden, I think its WAY TO EARLY to judge him and I am willing to give him time. Hopefully, he starts out by getting us a top GM. I trust he will make the right decisions (including whether or not to roll with Carr). This is the NFL. We can go from zero to hero in one year.

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  Robbykidd » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:15 am

I agree that Gruden deserves some time. The one thing I don’t worry about is the effort he will put in this offseason to improve this team. He’s a smart guy and if a new GM is hired, it won’t be a yes man as many have suggested, but the best man for the job. Same thing with coaches, he will make changes if necessary. He won’t jack around with coaches or players. He’s pissed and embarrassed and that will just be extra motivation. A motivated Gruden will be able to sell FA on his vision better than people expect. As bad as things look, it still wouldn’t surprise me if he turns it around much quicker than expected.

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  kinz » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:20 am

Here is my opinion not of what should happen, but of the current state and future.

Carr always had troubles. In part, teams figured him out, in part his failures have been terrible OCs, in part there is bad blood on the team for whatever reason, and in part, Carr is just plain sucking ass. The last is a big part and getting bigger. Unlikely at this point it gets better.

Gruden came in to a team 95% or more of people thought would be about .500 or more. After a purge of lots of Reggie youth and a really strange offseason we are 1-8 and the only question is whether we are worse than the Art Shell team everyone thought was the lowest a team could go.

Reggie did a tear down and rebuild. Team went from terrible financial shape to good shape, got to the point where we were sleeper picks for SB, but draft misses and horrible decisions under his watch put us back around .400. The draft misses are real, and the cap was becoming an issue again. Hard to defend Reggie. Still, can't discount the sunny days he brought.

Mark got us a new stadium. It seemed for a long while he got advice on a GM and stayed out. But he is back. Hired JDR, fired JDR, went in for $100 mil on Gruden, didn't open the wallet for Mack and likely not Cooper. In short, Mark is now an active owner.

The poster above is right to point to all the flaws in various positions, especially when it comes to what people think should be done. Here is what in my opinion is likely to happen. Mark stays an involved owner. Gruden stays for at least 5 years. If Reggie stays he is basically a scout. At some point we draft a new QB. We bring in a bunch of vet FAs for a pretty high price and they underperform. We continue to lose because we have zero talent on the team now, Gruden has no history of drafting talent, and Gruden looks in no way to be prepared to implement highly successful modern systems.

Bottom line, we look like the Denis Allen teams for the next 5 years. Then Mark pulls the plug on Gruden. Then Mark hires someone else as GM and a new coach. Maybe he finally hits gold with these guys and we prosper. Doubt it. We are seeing a suckass team for the rest of time because we don't have good people running the show, starting at the top. What we all feared when Mark took over is the reality. This is why people prefer other views because the truth sucks too much.

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  Jeevo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:13 am

kinz wrote Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:20 am:Here is my opinion not of what should happen, but of the current state and future.

Carr always had troubles. In part, teams figured him out, in part his failures have been terrible OCs, in part there is bad blood on the team for whatever reason, and in part, Carr is just plain sucking ass. The last is a big part and getting bigger. Unlikely at this point it gets better.

Gruden came in to a team 95% or more of people thought would be about .500 or more. After a purge of lots of Reggie youth and a really strange offseason we are 1-8 and the only question is whether we are worse than the Art Shell team everyone thought was the lowest a team could go.

Reggie did a tear down and rebuild. Team went from terrible financial shape to good shape, got to the point where we were sleeper picks for SB, but draft misses and horrible decisions under his watch put us back around .400. The draft misses are real, and the cap was becoming an issue again. Hard to defend Reggie. Still, can't discount the sunny days he brought.

Mark got us a new stadium. It seemed for a long while he got advice on a GM and stayed out. But he is back. Hired JDR, fired JDR, went in for $100 mil on Gruden, didn't open the wallet for Mack and likely not Cooper. In short, Mark is now an active owner.

The poster above is right to point to all the flaws in various positions, especially when it comes to what people think should be done. Here is what in my opinion is likely to happen. Mark stays an involved owner. Gruden stays for at least 5 years. If Reggie stays he is basically a scout. At some point we draft a new QB. We bring in a bunch of vet FAs for a pretty high price and they underperform. We continue to lose because we have zero talent on the team now, Gruden has no history of drafting talent, and Gruden looks in no way to be prepared to implement highly successful modern systems.

Bottom line, we look like the Denis Allen teams for the next 5 years. Then Mark pulls the plug on Gruden. Then Mark hires someone else as GM and a new coach. Maybe he finally hits gold with these guys and we prosper. Doubt it. We are seeing a suckass team for the rest of time because we don't have good people running the show, starting at the top. What we all feared when Mark took over is the reality. This is why people prefer other views because the truth sucks too much.
The "bottom line" is supposed to refer to something that is solid and can be taken to the bank. You say it and then list off a series of the same suppositions that you often try to sell as fact. Last time we were here we had no picks, no players and were in cap hell and were 12-3 within 4 years so to sell it as hopeless this time says more about your personal likes and dislikes than it does about the real state of affairs.

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  Ismail86 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:20 am

vtraider wrote Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:31 am:I've read through this entire thread in the last day and some of the posts are downright concerning and some laughable. Everything from posters wanting Carr give because he : is a Bible thumper, didn't fall in line with group think mentally, dared to have beliefs of his own, but yet even with these he's a pussy. Mentally soft can't handle teammates and even some very bailed subtle (and maybe I'm reading it wrong) insinuations that he divided the team because he's racist.

Along with gruden is the worst hc in the history of football. Doesn't know what he's doing. In over his head. Should be fired half a season in we should hire someone else but make sure we give them enough time to turn this thing around. (I guess that's about 8 games right?)

I liked Mack as a player and would have loved for him to retire as a raider. The two couldn't come to an agreement for whatever reason. Maybe it was Mack being greedy. Maybe it was Mark being cheap. Maybe it was his agent playing both off of the insecurities of the other. He's not here anymore. Sucks but have to move on and what we got in return is damn good for a player that reportedly wanted out

To Mark is an idiot who knows nothing and should stay out of football decisions but should absolutely fire Reggie and interview and hire someone who knows football ( get the irony? He doesn't know football but should interview to see if perspective GM's know football). To he's a spilled Coke head who likes women off ill repute (rumors but who wouldn't have been spoiled growing up like he did) who is too cheap to pay Mack so he should go and sell the team because he owes us fans more. ( When actually he owes us nothing. It's his business. If you don't like his business then don't support it. If I don't like Walmart I don't shop there. It's easy)

There is so much division even in this thread why do we as a people have to vilify someone because their opinion is different from ours. I see it day in and day out in politics and yes football is my escape from that. It sucks that the team isn't doing good. But it's a tear down and very few players will survive just so none of the coaches survived. The gm might and might not survive.

Now I know there will be reading between the lines of my posts. It's the way the world works. Go ahead and try to make me out as the devil for trying to be a voice of reason., The fact that I didn't defend anyone of color so I'll be branded a racist when actually it's just that the principle players coaches and owner being discussed are white.

My point is that people will find issues with whatever side of the fence they are on whether political. Race. Rich is poor. But honestly it's just football. Don't let a damn game make you tear others down just because they don't share your opinion. You don't have to stoop to that level. Just admit that we are all different and different isn't evil. There aren't hidden motives. It's just different.
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  Attyla » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:23 am

vtraider wrote Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:31 am:I've read through this entire thread in the last day and some of the posts are downright concerning and some laughable. Everything from posters wanting Carr give because he : is a Bible thumper, didn't fall in line with group think mentally, dared to have beliefs of his own, but yet even with these he's a pussy. Mentally soft can't handle teammates and even some very bailed subtle (and maybe I'm reading it wrong) insinuations that he divided the team because he's racist.

Along with gruden is the worst hc in the history of football. Doesn't know what he's doing. In over his head. Should be fired half a season in we should hire someone else but make sure we give them enough time to turn this thing around. (I guess that's about 8 games right?)

I liked Mack as a player and would have loved for him to retire as a raider. The two couldn't come to an agreement for whatever reason. Maybe it was Mack being greedy. Maybe it was Mark being cheap. Maybe it was his agent playing both off of the insecurities of the other. He's not here anymore. Sucks but have to move on and what we got in return is damn good for a player that reportedly wanted out

To Mark is an idiot who knows nothing and should stay out of football decisions but should absolutely fire Reggie and interview and hire someone who knows football ( get the irony? He doesn't know football but should interview to see if perspective GM's know football). To he's a spilled Coke head who likes women off ill repute (rumors but who wouldn't have been spoiled growing up like he did) who is too cheap to pay Mack so he should go and sell the team because he owes us fans more. ( When actually he owes us nothing. It's his business. If you don't like his business then don't support it. If I don't like Walmart I don't shop there. It's easy)

There is so much division even in this thread why do we as a people have to vilify someone because their opinion is different from ours. I see it day in and day out in politics and yes football is my escape from that. It sucks that the team isn't doing good. But it's a tear down and very few players will survive just so none of the coaches survived. The gm might and might not survive.

Now I know there will be reading between the lines of my posts. It's the way the world works. Go ahead and try to make me out as the devil for trying to be a voice of reason., The fact that I didn't defend anyone of color so I'll be branded a racist when actually it's just that the principle players coaches and owner being discussed are white.

My point is that people will find issues with whatever side of the fence they are on whether political. Race. Rich is poor. But honestly it's just football. Don't let a damn game make you tear others down just because they don't share your opinion. You don't have to stoop to that level. Just admit that we are all different and different isn't evil. There aren't hidden motives. It's just different.
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  kinz » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:36 am

Jeevo wrote Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:13 am:The "bottom line" is supposed to refer to something that is solid and can be taken to the bank. You say it and then list off a series of the same suppositions that you often try to sell as fact. Last time we were here we had no picks, no players and were in cap hell and were 12-3 within 4 years so to sell it as hopeless this time says more about your personal likes and dislikes than it does about the real state of affairs.
Change "bottom line" to my one-line summary of my opinions if the phrase bothers you. I don't believe I'm trying to sell anything as fact. A tip off to that might be that I started the message with "Here is my opinion". How would you suggest I indicate that I'm giving an opinion in a more clear fashion?

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  Jeevo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:09 am

kinz wrote Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:36 am:Change "bottom line" to my one-line summary of my opinions if the phrase bothers you. I don't believe I'm trying to sell anything as fact. A tip off to that might be that I started the message with "Here is my opinion". How would you suggest I indicate that I'm giving an opinion in a more clear fashion?
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  Attyla » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:23 am

Ismail86 wrote Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:20 am:I love you. Can't think of anything else to say so I'm rolling with it.
I have met the guy, you might have a shot with him. Flowers and a sweet card might just do the trick

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  Smucky » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:35 am

vtraider wrote Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:31 am:I've read through this entire thread in the last day and some of the posts are downright concerning and some laughable. Everything from posters wanting Carr give because he : is a Bible thumper, didn't fall in line with group think mentally, dared to have beliefs of his own, but yet even with these he's a pussy. Mentally soft can't handle teammates and even some very bailed subtle (and maybe I'm reading it wrong) insinuations that he divided the team because he's racist.

Along with gruden is the worst hc in the history of football. Doesn't know what he's doing. In over his head. Should be fired half a season in we should hire someone else but make sure we give them enough time to turn this thing around. (I guess that's about 8 games right?)

I liked Mack as a player and would have loved for him to retire as a raider. The two couldn't come to an agreement for whatever reason. Maybe it was Mack being greedy. Maybe it was Mark being cheap. Maybe it was his agent playing both off of the insecurities of the other. He's not here anymore. Sucks but have to move on and what we got in return is damn good for a player that reportedly wanted out

To Mark is an idiot who knows nothing and should stay out of football decisions but should absolutely fire Reggie and interview and hire someone who knows football ( get the irony? He doesn't know football but should interview to see if perspective GM's know football). To he's a spilled Coke head who likes women off ill repute (rumors but who wouldn't have been spoiled growing up like he did) who is too cheap to pay Mack so he should go and sell the team because he owes us fans more. ( When actually he owes us nothing. It's his business. If you don't like his business then don't support it. If I don't like Walmart I don't shop there. It's easy)

There is so much division even in this thread why do we as a people have to vilify someone because their opinion is different from ours. I see it day in and day out in politics and yes football is my escape from that. It sucks that the team isn't doing good. But it's a tear down and very few players will survive just so none of the coaches survived. The gm might and might not survive.

Now I know there will be reading between the lines of my posts. It's the way the world works. Go ahead and try to make me out as the devil for trying to be a voice of reason., The fact that I didn't defend anyone of color so I'll be branded a racist when actually it's just that the principle players coaches and owner being discussed are white.

My point is that people will find issues with whatever side of the fence they are on whether political. Race. Rich is poor. But honestly it's just football. Don't let a damn game make you tear others down just because they don't share your opinion. You don't have to stoop to that level. Just admit that we are all different and different isn't evil. There aren't hidden motives. It's just different.
Is that a picture of a 240Z , or a 280Z? Or am I way off. I can't tell by the picture.

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