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Never said genius, though some who actually make a living coaching have said so in the past. He's done it twice with different teams, won a Superbowl and had the 2nd offense in total yards after 4 games with the worst QB and biggest pussy in the league. The currently 30th ranked O line, admittedly pff but still, along with that QB, no feature back, no #1 WR but you want grade A offense out of us? What do you think KC's O would look like with our QB and vice versa? Four horrendous games and you have him down as a terrible offensive coach.
Carr is a HUGE part of the problem, but Gruden's offense isn't helping either. Do yourself a favor and go watch Raiders game from Gruden's previous stint and you will notice how similar the offenses look.
Still not sure what you're arguing. If you wanna believe Gruden is just running a vanilla scheme on purpose, I really have nothing else to say to you.
When a team reaches a certain level of pathetic, this is a moot question.
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Re: That Conley guy is pretty good...
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Smucky
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Excuse me, just fixing the often used cliche.MH_Raiders wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:52 pm:Putting up empty yards and numbers is Carr's M.O.
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MH_Raiders
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Come on, dude! Still not sure what you're arguing. There was a 45 point game in there, that's how you get 24 a game. Otherwise Raiders were averaging like 16 or 17 points. A supposed genius hasn't had a TD score from his offense in the last 3 out of 4 weeks and you think that's done on purpose? That's RN24 kinda logic...Jeevo wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:52 pm:I understand but this wasn't about Carr so no need to rehash the same stuff. You had implied that Gruden had no idea of how to run an offense and I wondered how the worst QB and biggest pussy in the league could have the second most yards and 24 a game after 4 weeks if Gruden was clueless. I implied that the change in the O has more to do with Gruden tanking then his inability to run a modern O. That's all.
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Jeevo
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You can make a case without personal shots.MH_Raiders wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:58 pm:Come on, dude! Still not sure what you're arguing. There was a 45 point game in there, that's how you get 24 a game. Otherwise Raiders were averaging like 16 or 17 points. A supposed genius hasn't had a TD score from his offense in the last 3 out of 4 weeks and you think that's done on purpose? That's RN24 kinda logic...
Never said genius, though some who actually make a living coaching have said so in the past. He's done it twice with different teams, won a Superbowl and had the 2nd offense in total yards after 4 games with the worst QB and biggest pussy in the league. The currently 30th ranked O line, admittedly pff but still, along with that QB, no feature back, no #1 WR but you want grade A offense out of us? What do you think KC's O would look like with our QB and vice versa? Four horrendous games and you have him down as a terrible offensive coach.
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MH_Raiders
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So you're saying we should just look at the first 4 weeks when the offense could barely score, except for one game, just because they were able to move the ball up and down the field and accumulate empty yards, and just ignore the last week 5 weeks because Gruden is running a vanilla scheme to "save his offense for next season?" It can't just be that the 20 year old offense was easily defendable and defenses caught on?Jeevo wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:50 pm:You can make a case without personal shots.
Never said genius, though some who actually make a living coaching have said so in the past. He's done it twice with different teams, won a Superbowl and had the 2nd offense in total yards after 4 games with the worst QB and biggest pussy in the league. The currently 30th ranked O line, admittedly pff but still, along with that QB, no feature back, no #1 WR but you want grade A offense out of us? What do you think KC's O would look like with our QB and vice versa? Four horrendous games and you have him down as a terrible offensive coach.
Carr is a HUGE part of the problem, but Gruden's offense isn't helping either. Do yourself a favor and go watch Raiders game from Gruden's previous stint and you will notice how similar the offenses look.
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vegas34
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Well of course. If you are mediocre you will never get a big Mack deal. We don’t need our players holding out for money like Bell. Much better to have a bunch of sorry sacks that we can cut with impunity. Wins are overrated. Just ask Mark’s accountant.Hunter wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:16 am:The lesson is you can’t have potentially good young players we need mediocre to horrible vets
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Jeevo
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So it is your contention that a good OC should have a good offense with Derek Carr as the QB (not to mention the 30th ranked O line, the lack of a feature back, no #1 wideout and Seth)?MH_Raiders wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:15 pm:So you're saying we should just look at the first 4 weeks when the offense could barely score, except for one game, just because they were able to move the ball up and down the field and accumulate empty yards, and just ignore the last week 5 weeks because Gruden is running a vanilla scheme to "save his offense for next season?" It can't just be that the 20 year old offense was easily defendable and defenses caught on?
Carr is a HUGE part of the problem, but Gruden's offense isn't helping either. Do yourself a favor and go watch Raiders game from Gruden's previous stint and you will notice how similar the offenses look.
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MH_Raiders
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Calling play designs including a 1 yard out route on 1st and 20 says it all...Jeevo wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:47 pm:So it is your contention that a good OC should have a good offense with Derek Carr as the QB?
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Jeevo
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So Derek Carr can lead a good offense in the NFL?MH_Raiders wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:00 pm:Calling play designs including a 1 yard out route on 1st and 20 says it all...
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MH_Raiders
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Derek Carr is a broken QB and Gruden's offense has only brought out the worst of Carr...Jeevo wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:03 pm:So Derek Carr can lead a good offense in the NFL?
Still not sure what you're arguing. If you wanna believe Gruden is just running a vanilla scheme on purpose, I really have nothing else to say to you.
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Jeevo
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We've been arguing about Gruden's ability to coach offense. Since you say that Carr is completely useless and a massive pussy I'm wondering how you expect Gruden to succeed with him. Add on the 30th ranked O line, no feature back or #1 wideout, no depth anywhere and Seth amd I don't see how he's supposed to get it done.MH_Raiders wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:10 pm:Derek Carr is a broken QB and Gruden's offense has only brought out the worst of Carr...
Still not sure what you're arguing. If you wanna believe Gruden is just running a vanilla scheme on purpose, I really have nothing else to say to you.
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MH_Raiders
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The OL play has to do with the play calling more often than you think. The recievers were apparently going to be the strength of the team before the season started, suddenly they are a bunch of useless bums. And guess why the running game is an issue? According to Gruden, Martin is a great back... lolJeevo wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:28 pm:We've been arguing about Gruden's ability to coach offense. Since you say that Carr is completely useless and a massive pussy I'm wondering how you expect Gruden to succeed with him. Add on the 30th ranked O line, no feature back or #1 wideout, no depth anywhere and Seth amd I don't see how he's supposed to get it done.
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MH_Raiders
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Damn me! I pride myself on shit like this too lolSmucky wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:59 pm:Excuse me, just fixing the often used cliche.
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Jeevo
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I'm not trying to harass you. Most people agree with you and I can't say you're wrong. I just believe that we are actually tanking. Kicking that fieldgoal down by 14 late is just crazy unless you don't want to win. No matter what you think of Gruden you have to know that he's smarter than that.MH_Raiders wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:02 pm:The OL play has to do with the play calling more often than you think. The recievers were apparently going to be the strength of the team before the season started, suddenly they are a bunch of useless bums. And guess why the running game is an issue? According to Gruden, Martin is a great back... lol
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kinz
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Tanking vs bad.Jeevo wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:23 pm:I'm not trying to harass you. Most people agree with you and I can't say you're wrong. I just believe that we are actually tanking. Kicking that fieldgoal down by 14 late is just crazy unless you don't want to win. No matter what you think of Gruden you have to know that he's smarter than that.
When a team reaches a certain level of pathetic, this is a moot question.
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