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I think somehow you find comfort in the idea that the team isn't trying to win. So our complete suckage isn't as hard to take. Its funny because Gruden not trying to win is somehow a good thing in the minds of some, while Carr not trying to win is the worst possible thing ever.
The truth, we are terrible. Our talent level is now terrible, our QB is terrible, and our coaching is terrible. Except for maybe a fluke, we have little chance to win even against other really bad teams. We suck about as badly as a team can suck. Its not on purpose, we suck. What we want to happen has no outcome on what will happen. We suck, whether we want to suck or not.
Also I love the logic, our QB is terrible and our talent level is terrible and our coaching should be able to more with them.
Carr is not the QBotF. The 2016 Carr could have been good enough. But he got worse. And so did this team.
I'm ready to move on. Whether it's this off-season or next.
As to the FG, maybe Gruden thought the offense could score 3 TDs or whatever but the defense would give up 3. Or maybe he thought getting some points was a moral victory that would help next week. I really don't care.
And as to the level of talent and coaching, lots of these guys were chosen, and from what I hear the phone was ringing off the hook with guys wanting to play. KNJ and Downy got a lot more out of their guys last year.
Offensively our weapons on the outside are limited, the o-line is getting abused, our ground game is non-existent.... that’s not winning many games as is. But When you add in terrible, predictable playcalling with little creativity you insure the offence puts up no more than 10 points a game knowing your defence is typically good to give up 30.
Guess I agree with both you guys - we are that bad but also tanking - which makes sense why the results have been overkill in terms of the gigantic, steaming turd we’ve watched on the field.
For clarity, I've never said we are or aren't trying to lose. I'm saying its a ridiculous question because what we want to happen has no effect on the outcome. We are going to lose because we are shitty.
PS - You are correct that my analogy was not fully thought out ... just like yours.
And by the way, if we really are trying to lose, then I'm a better fan than you because I'm cheering for it to happen!
Raiders vs Denver, I'm cheering for us and you're cheering for Denver but that's right, you're the better Raider fan.
1. Do you think the result is different if we try to win?
2. Do you think Gruden is doing the right thing trying to lose?
3. If the answer to 2 is yes, then why aren't you on board with it?
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Re: That Conley guy is pretty good...
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Jeevo
Posts: 4,122
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Location: Canada
Why would he kick that field goal if he wanted to win? And you can be both at the same time, in fact you become bad in order to tank.kinz wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:57 am:Tanking vs bad.
When a team reaches a certain level of pathetic, this is a moot question.
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kinz
Posts: 13,107
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:52 pm
This is like asking why an 8-year old girl would drop her guard while fighting Mike Tyson. Is she trying to lose? Its completely immaterial.Jeevo wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:29 am:Why would he kick that field goal if he wanted to win? And you can be both at the same time, in fact you become bad in order to tank.
I think somehow you find comfort in the idea that the team isn't trying to win. So our complete suckage isn't as hard to take. Its funny because Gruden not trying to win is somehow a good thing in the minds of some, while Carr not trying to win is the worst possible thing ever.
The truth, we are terrible. Our talent level is now terrible, our QB is terrible, and our coaching is terrible. Except for maybe a fluke, we have little chance to win even against other really bad teams. We suck about as badly as a team can suck. Its not on purpose, we suck. What we want to happen has no outcome on what will happen. We suck, whether we want to suck or not.
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Jeevo
Posts: 4,122
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:24 am
Location: Canada
It is relevant but doesn't fit your narrative so you brush it off. I said I thought we were tanking which implies that on some level we don't want to win. I used a perplexing decision to kick a fg instead of going for it and you won't comment on it. Nobody kicks that fg if they are trying to win.kinz wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:37 am:This is like asking why an 8-year old girl would drop her guard while fighting Mike Tyson. Is she trying to lose? Its completely immaterial.
I think somehow you find comfort in the idea that the team isn't trying to win. So our complete suckage isn't as hard to take. Its funny because Gruden not trying to win is somehow a good thing in the minds of some, while Carr not trying to win is the worst possible thing ever.
The truth, we are terrible. Our talent level is now terrible, our QB is terrible, and our coaching is terrible. Except for maybe a fluke, we have little chance to win even against other really bad teams. We suck about as badly as a team can suck. Its not on purpose, we suck. What we want to happen has no outcome on what will happen. We suck, whether we want to suck or not.
Also I love the logic, our QB is terrible and our talent level is terrible and our coaching should be able to more with them.
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352Raider
Posts: 6,293
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 2:47 pm
Carr is not the QBotF. The 2016 Carr could have been good enough. But he got worse. And so did this team.
I'm ready to move on. Whether it's this off-season or next.
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kinz
Posts: 13,107
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:52 pm
When I played chess with my older brother as a kid he would sometimes say he wasn't trying, sometimes he would flip over the board, sometimes he would suddenly have something better to do. When we sat down to play, the only thing that was in doubt was which excuse it would be for the ass kicking he was about to receive.Jeevo wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:47 am:It is relevant but doesn't fit your narrative so you brush it off. I said I thought we were tanking which implies that on some level we don't want to win. I used a perplexing decision to kick a fg instead of going for it and you won't comment on it. Nobody kicks that fg if they are trying to win.
Also I love the logic, our QB is terrible and our talent level is terrible and our coaching should be able to more with them.
As to the FG, maybe Gruden thought the offense could score 3 TDs or whatever but the defense would give up 3. Or maybe he thought getting some points was a moral victory that would help next week. I really don't care.
And as to the level of talent and coaching, lots of these guys were chosen, and from what I hear the phone was ringing off the hook with guys wanting to play. KNJ and Downy got a lot more out of their guys last year.
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Jeevo
Posts: 4,122
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:24 am
Location: Canada
Another poor analogy. The proper analogy would be if you made a simple mistake that was way below your talent level and that benefited your brother and sealed a victory for him. Why would you do something like that if you really wanted to win?kinz wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:00 am:When I played chess with my older brother as a kid he would sometimes say he wasn't trying, sometimes he would flip over the board, sometimes he would suddenly have something better to do. When we sat down to play, the only thing that was in doubt was which excuse it would be for the ass kicking he was about to receive.
As to the FG, maybe Gruden thought the offense could score 3 TDs or whatever but the defense would give up 3. Or maybe he thought getting some points was a moral victory that would help next week. I really don't care.
And as to the level of talent and coaching, lots of these guys were chosen, and from what I hear the phone was ringing off the hook with guys wanting to play. KNJ and Downy got a lot more out of their guys last year.
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MH_Raiders
Posts: 9,884
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:30 pm
- MH_Raiders
- Posts: 9,884
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raiders93
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:34 pm
I think the team is bad enough to lose on its own but Gruden isn’t leaving anything to chance - he’s making sure we don’t accidentally win.kinz wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:00 am:When I played chess with my older brother as a kid he would sometimes say he wasn't trying, sometimes he would flip over the board, sometimes he would suddenly have something better to do. When we sat down to play, the only thing that was in doubt was which excuse it would be for the ass kicking he was about to receive.
As to the FG, maybe Gruden thought the offense could score 3 TDs or whatever but the defense would give up 3. Or maybe he thought getting some points was a moral victory that would help next week. I really don't care.
And as to the level of talent and coaching, lots of these guys were chosen, and from what I hear the phone was ringing off the hook with guys wanting to play. KNJ and Downy got a lot more out of their guys last year.
Offensively our weapons on the outside are limited, the o-line is getting abused, our ground game is non-existent.... that’s not winning many games as is. But When you add in terrible, predictable playcalling with little creativity you insure the offence puts up no more than 10 points a game knowing your defence is typically good to give up 30.
Guess I agree with both you guys - we are that bad but also tanking - which makes sense why the results have been overkill in terms of the gigantic, steaming turd we’ve watched on the field.
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kinz
Posts: 13,107
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:52 pm
Your analogy has us as the superior team last week losing because we chose to go for a FG rather than a TD. You must have found yourself some blotter acid. Looked to me like we got the shit beat out of us last week.Jeevo wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:14 am:Another poor analogy. The proper analogy would be if you made a simple mistake that was way below your talent level and that benefited your brother and sealed a victory for him. Why would you do something like that if you really wanted to win?
For clarity, I've never said we are or aren't trying to lose. I'm saying its a ridiculous question because what we want to happen has no effect on the outcome. We are going to lose because we are shitty.
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Jeevo
Posts: 4,122
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:24 am
Location: Canada
So shitty teams always go 0-16 and being down by 7 with time for a stop and another TD could never result in a win (Browns game?).kinz wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:19 am:Your analogy has us as the superior team last week losing because we chose to go for a FG rather than a TD. You must have found yourself some blotter acid. Looked to me like we got the shit beat out of us last week.
For clarity, I've never said we are or aren't trying to lose. I'm saying its a ridiculous question because what we want to happen has no effect on the outcome. We are going to lose because we are shitty.
PS - You are correct that my analogy was not fully thought out ... just like yours.
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kinz
Posts: 13,107
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:52 pm
You are saying we are trying to lose. In your mind, would the result be different if we were not trying to lose?Jeevo wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:44 am:So shitty teams always go 0-16 and being down by 7 with time for a stop and another TD could never result in a win (Browns game?).
PS - You are correct that my analogy was not fully thought out ... just like yours.
And by the way, if we really are trying to lose, then I'm a better fan than you because I'm cheering for it to happen!
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Jeevo
Posts: 4,122
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:24 am
Location: Canada
We still had a chance and we didn't take that chance is what I'm saying. A classic tanking move.kinz wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:51 am:You are saying we are trying to lose. In your mind, would the result be different if we were not trying to lose?
And by the way, if we really are trying to lose, then I'm a better fan than you because I'm cheering for it to happen!
Raiders vs Denver, I'm cheering for us and you're cheering for Denver but that's right, you're the better Raider fan.
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kinz
Posts: 13,107
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:52 pm
Hey, three questions about your opinions based on the fact that you think we are trying to lose.Jeevo wrote Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:53 am:We still had a chance and we didn't take that chance is what I'm saying. A classic tanking move.
Raiders vs Denver, I'm cheering for us and you're cheering for Denver but that's right, you're the better Raider fan.
1. Do you think the result is different if we try to win?
2. Do you think Gruden is doing the right thing trying to lose?
3. If the answer to 2 is yes, then why aren't you on board with it?
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mad stork 83
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:36 am
Location: On a message board bullying people by being polite to them
- mad stork 83
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Great. We agree that it is a small sample size. I refuse to conclude "Conley is pretty good" based off of a small sample size like this.RaidersNFLReject wrote Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:00 am:Yes it is a small sample size, but that's because they are not throwing it his way on 3rd down.
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