MH_Raiders

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  MH_Raiders » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:43 pm

Jeevo wrote Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:20 pm:Yeah we kept losing those all pros that Reggie had assembled. Refresh my memory, besides Mack who were we so upset about losing?

Show me where I said an all pro roster. I said they were good enough not to look as bad as this team did at times in embarrassing fashion. Except for Kinz, and maybe a couple other guys, almost everyone was in agreement that last year's roster was a NFL offense away from being much better than their record showed. Suddenly, a year later, there was no roster, it was just a bunch of bums... how convenient. How dare anyone blame Gruden for having a hand in this disaster.

vegas34

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  vegas34 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:01 am

There are a group of people on this forum and a larger population that drink the kool aide so heavily that they are intellectually dishonest with themselves and to others.

They will rationalize every move by the organization and defend it all the way up to the point when the org changes direction to abort their mistake. These people then change their story to adapt so in their minds they are always hopeful. I bet psychologists would love to study the pathos of these people.

I get being fanatic but when you lose touch with reality so badly you gotta sometimes be slapped across the face. But that won’t even help so its best to just lump those fools with the trolls and throw them on ignore.

MH_Raiders

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  MH_Raiders » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:11 am

Jeevo wrote Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:25 am:And who were all those guys we were upset to lose?

It's not a disaster yet. it was year 1 of a new regime.

Lol, what do you call last year? The honeymoon?

Raidernation24

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  Raidernation24 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:14 am

vegas34 wrote Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:01 am:There are a group of people on this forum and a larger population that drink the kool aide so heavily that they are intellectually dishonest with themselves and to others.

They will rationalize every move by the organization and defend it all the way up to the point when the org changes direction to abort their mistake. These people then change their story to adapt so in their minds they are always hopeful. I bet psychologists would love to study the pathos of these people.

I get being fanatic but when you lose touch with reality so badly you gotta sometimes be slapped across the face. But that won’t even help so its best to just lump those fools with the trolls and throw them on ignore.

I dont see anyone justifying every move the organization has made. Freely admit the M. Bryant trade didnt work out. I still approve of the Mack and Cooper trades. I still am glad Crabtree is gone. I dont know about last years draft, to early to tell. It is called a different point of view. If you cant respect an opinion that differs from yours please do put me on ignore

-- Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:15 am --

MH_Raiders wrote Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:11 am:Lol, what do you call last year? The honeymoon?

A rebuild year.

Rainman56

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  Rainman56 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:59 am

Jeevo wrote Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:59 pm:So we sucked and Reggie was brutal. Fucking Gruden should have won us a bunch of games though!!

And not saying that you have this point of view. However there is a popular narrative that says that Reggie did a terrible job and left us with bare cupboards. Oh yeah our QB is terrible too but Gruden should have won anyway.

I don't think Reggie did a great job overall and it's hard to argue otherwise considering his draft history...He fixed our cap situation,drafted some good players as well as a great one in Mack........I have no issues with Gruden at the moment other than one his perceived assessment of 1 position on the team.........I have no problem giving him time to see if he can build a winner........This draft could go a long way to fixing the roster or sink the franchise for many years and he knows it imo........If he doesn't start turning the team around I'll be calling for his head like most others...........Right now I'm ok with seeing what he can do the next couple seasons.

26 docofdeath

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  26 docofdeath » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:28 am

Reggie's biggest problem was taking to many risks when better players were still on the board. That said, if Hayden and some of the others panned out he would have been a genius. He was a better GM than a talent evaluator. I really don't believe in talking shit about draft selections because there is to much subjectivity and to much 20/20 hindsight involved. Even the Mack selection was questioned due to the lack of talent that he played against in college, if he would have failed the line of people laughing and saying "I told you so" would have stretched around the corner.

beastmode24

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  beastmode24 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:36 am

reggie didn't do a good job at drafting except in 2014

don't reach and draft the best player available - mack, carr, jackson

the rest of the drafts he did is a reach and good feel story

vegas34

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  vegas34 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:23 am

Raidernation24 wrote Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:14 am:I dont see anyone justifying every move the organization has made. Freely admit the M. Bryant trade didnt work out. I still approve of the Mack and Cooper trades. I still am glad Crabtree is gone. I dont know about last years draft, to early to tell. It is called a different point of view. If you cant respect an opinion that differs from yours please do put me on ignore

-- Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:15 am --

A rebuild year.

There absolutely are...you are not one of them but interesting that you felt the need to defend yourself as one.

Raidernation24

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  Raidernation24 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:29 am

vegas34 wrote Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:23 am:There absolutely are...you are not one of them but interesting that you felt the need to defend yourself as one.

You have the opposite as well, guys who are negative no matter what the team does or chooses. I remember when Khalil Mack couldnt get sacks without MEJ to some of these guys or when they were calling for Musgraves head after he lead us to a top 5 offense. Always extreme optimists and pessimists.

kinz

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  kinz » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:00 am

Raidernation24 wrote Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:29 am:You have the opposite as well, guys who are negative no matter what the team does or chooses. I remember when Khalil Mack couldnt get sacks without MEJ to some of these guys or when they were calling for Musgraves head after he lead us to a top 5 offense. Always extreme optimists and pessimists.

Mack's first year is a great example. I was vocal about saying Mack needed to get to the QB to be a top player. I said he needed to get at least into the double digits in sacks and I thought he would. Others said I was a hater and that Mack was a great player whether or not he got to the QB. That is when the "sacks are overrated" bullshit started. Guys bent so far over backwards crazy shit like "by definition, you can't get an interception on a sack and INTs are worth the most" started.

Guess what, Mack did get his sacks and then guys pointed to this with pride.

Point is, there are a lot of guys that have zero objective reality. They mold reality to try to portray our current position in as positive a light as possible. People that just have a base reality are viewed as haters.

Name an extreme pessimist that hasn't been right. I can name extreme optimists that haven't been in the same continent as right. (cough cough skullz).

NoThanksSir

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  NoThanksSir » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:09 am

If the shoe fits, right? If you're bad are the pessimists really pessimists, or are they just honest with themselves?

Raidernation24

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  Raidernation24 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:09 am

kinz wrote Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:00 am:Mack's first year is a great example. I was vocal about saying Mack needed to get to the QB to be a top player. I said he needed to get at least into the double digits in sacks and I thought he would. Others said I was a hater and that Mack was a great player whether or not he got to the QB. That is when the "sacks are overrated" bullshit started. Guys bent so far over backwards crazy shit like "by definition, you can't get an interception on a sack and INTs are worth the most" started.

Guess what, Mack did get his sacks and then guys pointed to this with pride.

Point is, there are a lot of guys that have zero objective reality. They mold reality to try to portray our current position in as positive a light as possible. People that just have a base reality are viewed as haters.

Name an extreme pessimist that hasn't been right. I can name extreme optimists that haven't been in the same continent as right. (cough cough skullz).

Sacks are overrated to a degree ( see Trey Flowers as an example). Turnovers and consistent pressure on the qb outweigh sacks but they are very important peice as well. The Seattle Seahawks were near bottom of the nfl when they won the SB but played stout defense and created turnovers.

Anyway, I agree both sides have extremisms but a wait and see approach before jumping off a cliff with each new regime isnt crazy imo. I still believe Gruden will get this team right within the next 2 years. He has not failed at any stop in his career. We will see