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Is the socratic method too much? Then try Grosse's post.
Carr has had 2 top 10 seasons out of 5 total. Enough to warrant another year with quality talent around him.
Antonio Brown didnt come to Oak to play with a rookie learning qb. He came to play with Carr
If you are referring to the Carrsaders, most, if not all, have been patient with the rookies or first year starters. Miller is not a lost cause. He needs to get healthy and he should be fine. Most of those players just need time and continuity.
In my humble opinion, the fact that 2015 and 2016 happened provides 2 possible explanations for what happened to Carr since.
1. He’s always had issues with pressure and footwork under pressure (even 2016) but it wasn’t an issue b/c the line was excellent, we had a couple weapons, and the system had chemistry. It became a visible issue once those other things regressed. By implication, if we fix those things again, Carr will look good again.
2. Carr got much better under pressure in 2015 and 2016 and regressed thereafter separate of the team (likely shell-shocked from the injury).
I don’t know which it is. The fact that the team got worse around the same time as him makes it hard to distinguish - did Carr get worse as a QB or did the team get worse and expose his life-long weaknesses
I look forward to getting the answer this year. Since 2016, this is the first time the team has looked like it got significantly better. If Carr holds it back, I think we’ll know he got worse. If he looks 2016, I think we can pretty safely assume he’s a very good QB so long as he’s got an offence. Contrary to popular belief, a good team is essential to EVERY qb - it doesn’t diminish their ability. Mahomes would not have had his year without the most dynamic wr, the best TE, a top 5 line, and the brightest offensive mind orchestrating it all.
The hubris of the media. They think everyone should listen to their views.
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Re: Well, Let's Try This Yet Again - the Carr thread
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Skullz
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That's impressive word salad. I asked you a simple yes or no question.BluegrassRaider wrote Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:06 am:I'm saying his flaws have been consistent throughout his career.
In 2016 of those flaws also had negative gravity just as all of our do in our daily lives even if we make up for them enough to be very successful despite them.
Likewise, in 2016 Carr's issues were compensated for with opportunistic defense, a solid if not spectacular running game, and yes some very clutch play from Carr down the stretch many times and more than the average or even good quarterback.
None of that means his negatives had no impact or had disappeared.
The offense that came to life in the 4th quarter so many times often was listless and put extra pressure on a less than stellar D and limited the running game's opportunities the other three.
Mediocre and even lackluster quarterbacks have had great individual seasons throughout history. The exception cannot be conflated with the rule.
Honestly, I strongly believe this would be considerably easier to process for quite a few if the exact same player was on another team.
You see this with folks that will absolutely pan a rookie or a first year starter or declare them overrated but can construct a set of filters to rationalize Carr's play, need for patience for his development, and how amazing he is for where he is in his career.
The same kats.
Is the socratic method too much? Then try Grosse's post.
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Skullz
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grosse gurke wrote Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:53 am:Another false narrative is Carr's inability to play under center. First....if you are behind like the raiders were often last year...you will be passing a ton and playing more out of the gun then usual. Second....are you using this same measure for the rest of the league?
https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap ... -off-.html
16 other teams play from the gun more than the raiders. The league average is 38% playing under center....the raiders were 40%.
Sounds good though....
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Chiefhater
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Raidernation24
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Here is a little reality. Nearly all QB have things they struggle with, especially in their first 5 ish years in the league with less than a quality team around them. Brees was not the Brees we know now right away. Nor was Brady, Manning, Big Ben, etc.BluegrassRaider wrote Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:06 am:I'm saying his flaws have been consistent throughout his career.
In 2016 of those flaws also had negative gravity just as all of our do in our daily lives even if we make up for them enough to be very successful despite them.
Likewise, in 2016 Carr's issues were compensated for with opportunistic defense, a solid if not spectacular running game, and yes some very clutch play from Carr down the stretch many times and more than the average or even good quarterback.
None of that means his negatives had no impact or had disappeared.
The offense that came to life in the 4th quarter so many times often was listless and put extra pressure on a less than stellar D and limited the running game's opportunities the other three.
Mediocre and even lackluster quarterbacks have had great individual seasons throughout history. The exception cannot be conflated with the rule.
Honestly, I strongly believe this would be considerably easier to process for quite a few if the exact same player was on another team.
You see this with folks that will absolutely pan a rookie or a first year starter or declare them overrated but can construct a set of filters to rationalize Carr's play, need for patience for his development, and how amazing he is for where he is in his career.
The same kats.
Carr has had 2 top 10 seasons out of 5 total. Enough to warrant another year with quality talent around him.
Antonio Brown didnt come to Oak to play with a rookie learning qb. He came to play with Carr
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CarrKnight
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If you have names and examples, be specific. Casting accusations behind vagueness is unfair.BluegrassRaider wrote Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:06 am:I'm saying his flaws have been consistent throughout his career.
In 2016 of those flaws also had negative gravity just as all of our do in our daily lives even if we make up for them enough to be very successful despite them.
Likewise, in 2016 Carr's issues were compensated for with opportunistic defense, a solid if not spectacular running game, and yes some very clutch play from Carr down the stretch many times and more than the average or even good quarterback.
None of that means his negatives had no impact or had disappeared.
The offense that came to life in the 4th quarter so many times often was listless and put extra pressure on a less than stellar D and limited the running game's opportunities the other three.
Mediocre and even lackluster quarterbacks have had great individual seasons throughout history. The exception cannot be conflated with the rule.
Honestly, I strongly believe this would be considerably easier to process for quite a few if the exact same player was on another team.
You see this with folks that will absolutely pan a rookie or a first year starter or declare them overrated but can construct a set of filters to rationalize Carr's play, need for patience for his development, and how amazing he is for where he is in his career.
The same kats.
If you are referring to the Carrsaders, most, if not all, have been patient with the rookies or first year starters. Miller is not a lost cause. He needs to get healthy and he should be fine. Most of those players just need time and continuity.
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raiders93
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You’ve pointed out before that you thought he got progressively better over his 1st 3 years (iirc inept as a rookie, much better year 2, mvp year 3). Regardless of his specific weaknesses and whether you felt they were still present in 2016, you still thought he got better as an overall QB, correct?mad stork 83 wrote Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:31 am:This is a great post imo. I will change my opinion when I see something that show change and improvement. I will not change my opinion because someone thinks he will do better. It is the difference between reality and fantasy.
In my humble opinion, the fact that 2015 and 2016 happened provides 2 possible explanations for what happened to Carr since.
1. He’s always had issues with pressure and footwork under pressure (even 2016) but it wasn’t an issue b/c the line was excellent, we had a couple weapons, and the system had chemistry. It became a visible issue once those other things regressed. By implication, if we fix those things again, Carr will look good again.
2. Carr got much better under pressure in 2015 and 2016 and regressed thereafter separate of the team (likely shell-shocked from the injury).
I don’t know which it is. The fact that the team got worse around the same time as him makes it hard to distinguish - did Carr get worse as a QB or did the team get worse and expose his life-long weaknesses
I look forward to getting the answer this year. Since 2016, this is the first time the team has looked like it got significantly better. If Carr holds it back, I think we’ll know he got worse. If he looks 2016, I think we can pretty safely assume he’s a very good QB so long as he’s got an offence. Contrary to popular belief, a good team is essential to EVERY qb - it doesn’t diminish their ability. Mahomes would not have had his year without the most dynamic wr, the best TE, a top 5 line, and the brightest offensive mind orchestrating it all.
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HITMAN
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Well said...propsBluegrassRaider wrote Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:43 am:It isn't an agreement that he gets this year to prove himself, I'm in the backseat forced to go along for the ride because I think it is past time to move on but he will get his year because management has deemed it so.
The 6th year rookie stuff is beyond absurd to me because I do not see his flaws as system but player dependent. We are wasting time.
He cannot see the field, he does not anticipate well, his footwork is poor, he is passive, he cannot feel the rush and in fact feels phantom rush, he is immobile in the pocket, cannot effectively move the pocket, and he cannot operate under center.
He is a high end back up/stop gap starter with the measurables to be more but not the game.
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Raidernation24
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I don't support PFT. Florio is a known Raider hater and does not present a balanced, non bias view point.RaidersNFLReject wrote Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:30 pm:https://youtube.com/watch?v=eP5YTdSW9YM
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Attyla
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No need to waste my time. Plenty others to read and watchAttyla wrote Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:25 am:bias does not mean he does not make solid points at times. you just have to filter through the stuff.
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Chiefhater
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Thanks for that...grosse gurke wrote Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:53 am:Another false narrative is Carr's inability to play under center. First....if you are behind like the raiders were often last year...you will be passing a ton and playing more out of the gun then usual. Second....are you using this same measure for the rest of the league?
https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap ... -off-.html
16 other teams play from the gun more than the raiders. The league average is 38% playing under center....the raiders were 40%.
Sounds good though....
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CarrKnight
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The hubris of the media. They think everyone should listen to their views.
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HITMAN
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The problem as I see it is too many fans either buy that shit or think the Florio's of the world actually have something of value to say. The media is the media, and it's just opinion nothing more.CarrKnight wrote Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:25 am:Florio is still pissed that Carr blocked him on Twitter.
The hubris of the media. They think everyone should listen to their views.
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