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I stand by what I said. So you have him higher than 22. Great. I don't.
Maybe we should get us a first round QB. The 2nd round guy is performing as expected and he is definitely getting paid like he is good...
I find it interesting that the detractors play up the Carr vs. playoff team card so often - it can actually fuel either side of the debate. If the team cannot win without Carr performing very well, then rest assured that playoff caliber teams are going to recognize that and focus on Carr and the passing game to ensure a win. That's the whole problem with trying to evaluate Carr when the team around him is so poor. When the Giants focus on getting pressure on Brady, Brady looks human. That's what good teams do - they take away the opponents' most important weapon. It's just that much easier against the Raiders -1) because Carr isn't a top 5 QB to begin with and 2) because there's absolutely nothing but Carr and the passing game to focus on. They can pretty much ignore the run, in almost all cases, because it won't hurt them at all.
Keep posting! So I can keep pointing out what pointless hating ass out of context failing the most basic ass reading comprehension posting looks like. Like I said you ignored fellow59s post that broke it down to you even better than I did.
I wonder why? Move goalposts much? Because are the least intellectually honest person on this site. Maybe learn how field position is affected by having a poor defense junior. See today you learned something. You’re welcome!
Yes, 475 is two games, the remaining 1647 is another 5-7 games . . . .over 5 years. It's not a significant number.
More importantly, when you compare it to a truly great QB over the same time period - Brees - the difference is pretty much negligible. It's 1-2% extra of Carr's overall production, which is nothing.
So, the idea that he is significantly inflating his stats when behind turns into a pretty limited argument. It's not enough of an impact. Case closed in my opinion. The numbers don't support it.
I used to like him before this summer. I can’t blame you for not knowing what I know about his personal life. Some people can handle adversity, it takes a whole nother type of leader to handle money ‘success’ and posterity.
What made me LOL was the irony of it all. Not to mention one of my favorite players is on their defense. And one of the best defenders in the league. Their backup running back duke johnson was better than any Rb on our roster last year. At the least a better fit. Obviously you’re entitled to your opinion. But I have zero faith in Mayfield at this point. Keep in mind I’m a weird guy. I thought Jimmy G was done as soon as he started fuckin porn stars. And I was very high on him before that. It be like that sometimes.
It’s going to be interesting.
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Re: Bringing back the deep ball
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HITMAN
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There aren't a lot of them so I think this idea that Carr is getting a great deal of relief isn't really all that significant when making these comparisons. Carr has taken more than 90% if not more of the snaps at QB since he's been the starter. What was that total number of yards for three other guy's 475? That's essentially one possibly two games of stats you are factoring in.Jeremyturner1976 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:56 am:You the man. Limiting it to Carr only does make a difference. I don't recall many non-Carr QB games but I suppose they existed. Must have been early year stuff?
Now when he wins, we know from his record against playoff teams it us usually bottom feeding. So yes, his passer rating is better when he wins due to the level of competition - on average.
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Jeremyturner1976
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Which ones quit on their team. To me that plays a far larger factor than stats. Competitors compete, paycheck earners do what is required to see more paychecks.16 to 88 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:01 am:He better.
He was also the 1st overall pick in the draft last year. With that type of expectations he better be the a top 5 QB for years to come. Carr was a 2nd rounder.
Carr... 52 sacks behind arguably one of the worst lines in the NFL with two rookie tackles and a "rushing attack" that placed 25th.
Mayfield? 25 sacks. That's LESS than half of what Carr encountered. Give Baker 27 more sacks to deal with and zero rushing attack and see how he fairs. Is anybody seriously going to argue you would see the same product under those circumstances?
If yes, I would have to say that person needs to go watch badminton or something. Cleveland had the 14th best ground game last year. Cooper was dealt halfway through the season and we all saw what unfolded.
Well, some of us at least.
I can play this game too. You throw Mayfield out there as an example but ignore the other 4 QB's that were drafted in the 1st round last year how did they fair?
Sam Darnold: in 13 games he had 2865 passing yards 17 TD's and 15 INT's. He was sacked 30 times. 22 short of Carr who was constantly running for his life. The jets running attack however was 26th in the league.
Josh Allen: in 12 games he had 2074 passing yards 10 TD's and 17 INT's. He was sacked 24 times but his team was 9th in rushing in the NFL. Ouch.
Josh Rosen: 14 games he had 2278 passing yards 11 TD's and 14 INT's. He was sacked however 45 times in those games and the Cardinals had a horrible rushing attack. Worse than ours if that could be believed.
Lamar Jackson: Couldn't beat Flacco at the beginning of the season out of a job and looked horrible in his 7 games.
Well? What about Derek's rookie season?
Threw for 3270 yards with 21 TD's and 12 INT's. He was sacked 24 times but had the worst rushing attack in the entire league. 32 out of 32. Dead last. And who knows what the drop rate was that season.
You bring up Trubisky as a better QB then Carr...
Mitchell Trubisky: In 14 games last year he had 3223 yards passing with 24 TD's and 12 INT's. Sacked 24 times and had the 11th ranked rushing attack in the NFL.
Even if he played in the same number of games as Carr and had two 400 yard passing games (HA!) he still wouldn't have thrown for more yards than him. And that's with the 11 best rushing attack last year.
Darnold and Trubisky are above Carr on your list...
I stand by what I said. So you have him higher than 22. Great. I don't.
Maybe we should get us a first round QB. The 2nd round guy is performing as expected and he is definitely getting paid like he is good...
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HITMAN
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Only problem with your argument is Mayfield won't ever take 51 sacks, because he's always trying to make plays, looking for options and isn't afraid to throw it downfield. Mayfield is a competitor, hates losing and works at improving his game, I'm not so sure I can say that about Carr. I would also add Mayfield cares more about winning than personal stats!16 to 88 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:01 am:He better.
He was also the 1st overall pick in the draft last year. With that type of expectations he better be the a top 5 QB for years to come. Carr was a 2nd rounder.
Carr... 52 sacks behind arguably one of the worst lines in the NFL with two rookie tackles and a "rushing attack" that placed 25th.
Mayfield? 25 sacks. That's LESS than half of what Carr encountered. Give Baker 27 more sacks to deal with and zero rushing attack and see how he fairs. Is anybody seriously going to argue you would see the same product under those circumstances?
If yes, I would have to say that person needs to go watch badminton or something. Cleveland had the 14th best ground game last year. Cooper was dealt halfway through the season and we all saw what unfolded.
Well, some of us at least.
I can play this game too. You throw Mayfield out there as an example but ignore the other 4 QB's that were drafted in the 1st round last year how did they fair?
Sam Darnold: in 13 games he had 2865 passing yards 17 TD's and 15 INT's. He was sacked 30 times. 22 short of Carr who was constantly running for his life. The jets running attack however was 26th in the league.
Josh Allen: in 12 games he had 2074 passing yards 10 TD's and 17 INT's. He was sacked 24 times but his team was 9th in rushing in the NFL. Ouch.
Josh Rosen: 14 games he had 2278 passing yards 11 TD's and 14 INT's. He was sacked however 45 times in those games and the Cardinals had a horrible rushing attack. Worse than ours if that could be believed.
Lamar Jackson: Couldn't beat Flacco at the beginning of the season out of a job and looked horrible in his 7 games.
Well? What about Derek's rookie season?
Threw for 3270 yards with 21 TD's and 12 INT's. He was sacked 24 times but had the worst rushing attack in the entire league. 32 out of 32. Dead last. And who knows what the drop rate was that season.
You bring up Trubisky as a better QB then Carr...
Mitchell Trubisky: In 14 games last year he had 3223 yards passing with 24 TD's and 12 INT's. Sacked 24 times and had the 11th ranked rushing attack in the NFL.
Even if he played in the same number of games as Carr and had two 400 yard passing games (HA!) he still wouldn't have thrown for more yards than him. And that's with the 11 best rushing attack last year.
Darnold and Trubisky are above Carr on your list...
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Raidernation24
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I dont see last years injuries having anything to do with Gruden wanting Carr to improve under pressuremad stork 83 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:48 am:All this would make sense if Carr played well before the injuries.
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fellow59
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It was only 79 total plays over 5 years, so either they were down by a ton and pulled Carr, or Carr got hurt a few games and didn't finish out a game. As it was McGloin, Cook, Schaub, AND McCarron, it was pretty much across all the years. Though 49 of the 79 were McGloin, turns out 31 of those 49 were from one game, against Cincinnati, in which Carr injured his hand late in the first half. McGloin played the entire second half down 20 or more.Jeremyturner1976 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:56 am:You the man. Limiting it to Carr only does make a difference. I don't recall many non-Carr QB games but I suppose they existed. Must have been early year stuff?
Now when he wins, we know from his record against playoff teams it us usually bottom feeding. So yes, his passer rating is better when he wins due to the level of competition - on average.
I find it interesting that the detractors play up the Carr vs. playoff team card so often - it can actually fuel either side of the debate. If the team cannot win without Carr performing very well, then rest assured that playoff caliber teams are going to recognize that and focus on Carr and the passing game to ensure a win. That's the whole problem with trying to evaluate Carr when the team around him is so poor. When the Giants focus on getting pressure on Brady, Brady looks human. That's what good teams do - they take away the opponents' most important weapon. It's just that much easier against the Raiders -1) because Carr isn't a top 5 QB to begin with and 2) because there's absolutely nothing but Carr and the passing game to focus on. They can pretty much ignore the run, in almost all cases, because it won't hurt them at all.
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Skullz
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Yeah because having good field position doesn’t matter. LOL.why don’t you look up where this team has ranked in that category? Or is that too much studying for your hating ass to do?mad stork 83 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:26 am:Maybe you didn't know this but when there is a bad defense, they give up points. Couple that with a bad offense and teams start to play soft. They are content to make the tackle and keep the clock moving. It is a pretty common occrence.
See, you learned something today. You're welcome!
Keep posting! So I can keep pointing out what pointless hating ass out of context failing the most basic ass reading comprehension posting looks like. Like I said you ignored fellow59s post that broke it down to you even better than I did.
I wonder why? Move goalposts much? Because are the least intellectually honest person on this site. Maybe learn how field position is affected by having a poor defense junior. See today you learned something. You’re welcome!
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Skullz
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Exactly, another stellar post. Having to play catch up all the time does the offense zero favors. The running game has done shit in terms of helping us establish tempo either. Neither has the defense. And these aren’t slight exaggerations. We have little time and little talent to go downfield. Yet it’s all Carr’s fault. All the time. What a joke.fellow59 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:48 pm:It was only 79 total plays over 5 years, so either they were down by a ton and pulled Carr, or Carr got hurt a few games and didn't finish out a game. As it was McGloin, Cook, Schaub, AND McCarron, it was pretty much across all the years. Though 49 of the 79 were McGloin, turns out 31 of those 49 were from one game, against Cincinnati, in which Carr injured his hand late in the first half. McGloin played the entire second half down 20 or more.
I find it interesting that the detractors play up the Carr vs. playoff team card so often - it can actually fuel either side of the debate. If the team cannot win without Carr performing very well, then rest assured that playoff caliber teams are going to recognize that and focus on Carr and the passing game to ensure a win. That's the whole problem with trying to evaluate Carr when the team around him is so poor. When the Giants focus on getting pressure on Brady, Brady looks human. That's what good teams do - they take away the opponents' most important weapon. It's just that much easier against the Raiders -1) because Carr isn't a top 5 QB to begin with and 2) because there's absolutely nothing but Carr and the passing game to focus on. They can pretty much ignore the run, in almost all cases, because it won't hurt them at all.
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fellow59
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Look over the numbers. We're dealing with a small fraction of the games in the first place (second half when down by 17 or more), then you're taking another 20% of that away.HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:57 am: There aren't a lot of them so I think this idea that Carr is getting a great deal of relief isn't really all that significant when making these comparisons. Carr has taken more than 90% if not more of the snaps at QB since he's been the starter. What was that total number of yards for three other guy's 475? That's essentially one possibly two games of stats you are factoring in.
Yes, 475 is two games, the remaining 1647 is another 5-7 games . . . .over 5 years. It's not a significant number.
More importantly, when you compare it to a truly great QB over the same time period - Brees - the difference is pretty much negligible. It's 1-2% extra of Carr's overall production, which is nothing.
So, the idea that he is significantly inflating his stats when behind turns into a pretty limited argument. It's not enough of an impact. Case closed in my opinion. The numbers don't support it.
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Skullz
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LOL please frame this post. It’s going to be fun to revisit. Some of you guys give bandwagon a whole new meaning.HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:14 pm:Only problem with your argument is Mayfield won't ever take 51 sacks, because he's always trying to make plays, looking for options and isn't afraid to throw it downfield. Mayfield is a competitor, hates losing and works at improving his game, I'm not so sure I can say that about Carr. I would also add Mayfield cares more about winning than personal stats!
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Raidernation24
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I'm hoping with the addition of Jacobs, T. Brown and Incognito our run game improves greatly this year. I'd love to see a top 15 rush attack and top pass game with a top 10 overall offense. Get our defense into even the teens in pts per game ranking and suddenly we are a playoff contender.fellow59 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:48 pm:It was only 79 total plays over 5 years, so either they were down by a ton and pulled Carr, or Carr got hurt a few games and didn't finish out a game. As it was McGloin, Cook, Schaub, AND McCarron, it was pretty much across all the years. Though 49 of the 79 were McGloin, turns out 31 of those 49 were from one game, against Cincinnati, in which Carr injured his hand late in the first half. McGloin played the entire second half down 20 or more.
I find it interesting that the detractors play up the Carr vs. playoff team card so often - it can actually fuel either side of the debate. If the team cannot win without Carr performing very well, then rest assured that playoff caliber teams are going to recognize that and focus on Carr and the passing game to ensure a win. That's the whole problem with trying to evaluate Carr when the team around him is so poor. When the Giants focus on getting pressure on Brady, Brady looks human. That's what good teams do - they take away the opponents' most important weapon. It's just that much easier against the Raiders -1) because Carr isn't a top 5 QB to begin with and 2) because there's absolutely nothing but Carr and the passing game to focus on. They can pretty much ignore the run, in almost all cases, because it won't hurt them at all.
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mad stork 83
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I don't see any evidence that this is what Gruden wanted.Raidernation24 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:18 pm:I dont see last years injuries having anything to do with Gruden wanting Carr to improve under pressure
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HITMAN
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First off I'm not a bandwagon fan of any player, I watched every Mayfield game while at OU because I'm an OU fan, so I'm well aware of what Mayfield can and cannot do, and if he were as tall as Carr this wouldn't even be a discussion. The guy is a football player and will and usually does anything to win football games.. If Carr showed as much heart and grit as Mayfield the Raiders might be on to something!Skullz wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:00 pm:LOL please frame this post. It’s going to be fun to revisit. Some of you guys give bandwagon a whole new meaning.
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HITMAN
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I see your point and the argument, but I'm not arguing against Carr's personal stats, as I have stated on more than one occasion I couldn't care less if he was throwing for a buck fifty a game as long as the Raiders win. We could go on and on about the why's and argue ad nauseam on why he hasn't been more successful on the field, but at the end of the day and when his career is over we all know the personal stats might carry some weight, but fair or not as gg mentioned in another thread the true litmus test will always be winning vs. losing...fellow59 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:58 pm:Look over the numbers. We're dealing with a small fraction of the games in the first place (second half when down by 17 or more), then you're taking another 20% of that away.
Yes, 475 is two games, the remaining 1647 is another 5-7 games . . . .over 5 years. It's not a significant number.
More importantly, when you compare it to a truly great QB over the same time period - Brees - the difference is pretty much negligible. It's 1-2% extra of Carr's overall production, which is nothing.
So, the idea that he is significantly inflating his stats when behind turns into a pretty limited argument. It's not enough of an impact. Case closed in my opinion. The numbers don't support it.
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Skullz
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Mayfield is already Hollywood.HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:22 pm:First off I'm not a bandwagon fan of any player, I watched every Mayfield game while at OU because I'm an OU fan, so I'm well aware of what Mayfield can and cannot do, and if he were as tall as Carr this wouldn't even be a discussion. The guy is a football player and will and usually does anything to win football games.. If Carr showed as much heart and grit as Mayfield the Raiders might be on to something!
I used to like him before this summer. I can’t blame you for not knowing what I know about his personal life. Some people can handle adversity, it takes a whole nother type of leader to handle money ‘success’ and posterity.
What made me LOL was the irony of it all. Not to mention one of my favorite players is on their defense. And one of the best defenders in the league. Their backup running back duke johnson was better than any Rb on our roster last year. At the least a better fit. Obviously you’re entitled to your opinion. But I have zero faith in Mayfield at this point. Keep in mind I’m a weird guy. I thought Jimmy G was done as soon as he started fuckin porn stars. And I was very high on him before that. It be like that sometimes.
It’s going to be interesting.
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HITMAN
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You of all people should know I'm not all that concerned about his personal life, hollywood or anything outside of football. What matters is what he does on the football field, and that's all that matters in these discussions. I have nothing against Carr's wholesome image and his faith or belief system, what I care most about is what he does while on the field, and wearing the uniform... I'm also not worried about having faith in Mayfield as he doesn't play for the Raiders if he tanks no skin off my back that's Cleveland's problem. See what I'm getting at? The game and how it is played is all that matters and Al Davis would have agreed. Same with Madden... be on time, play like hell on Sunday! Pretty elementary!Skullz wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:32 pm:Mayfield is already Hollywood.
I used to like him before this summer. I can’t blame you for not knowing what I know about his personal life. Some people can handle adversity, it takes a whole nother type of leader to handle money ‘success’ and posterity.
What made me LOL was the irony of it all. Not to mention one of my favorite players is on their defense. And one of the best defenders in the league. Their backup running back duke johnson was better than any Rb on our roster last year. At the least a better fit. Obviously you’re entitled to your opinion. But I have zero faith in Mayfield at this point. Keep in mind I’m a weird guy. I thought Jimmy G was done as soon as he started fuckin porn stars. It be like that sometimes.
It’s going to be interesting.
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