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Kidding.
As I've mentioned, while W/L is the only thing that matters for the team, I just can't get behind an argument that measures a QB's success only on that. It's not accurate or fair. But we all see it our own way.
Jacobs is our Chubb this year. That’s for sure. I actually like Jacobs as a prospect more. Let’s hope he contributes quickly.
The 2 years Stabler was unable to make the playoffs? When his running game was 16th and 24th. Funny how that works.
Would we be in better shape? Not way to really answer it yes or no.
By your metric, so Carr is cool under pressure considering he and Stabler are tied in career comeback victories with 16.
Come on Chucker! Free my boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Bringing back the deep ball
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fellow59
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Alright then, don't argue the stats if you're not arguing the stats!HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:31 pm:I see your point and the argument, but I'm not arguing against Carr's personal stats, as I have stated on more than one occasion I couldn't care less if he was throwing for a buck fifty a game as long as the Raiders win. We could go on and on about the why's and argue ad nauseam on why he hasn't been more successful on the field, but at the end of the day and when his career is over we all know the personal stats might carry some weight, but fair or not as gg mentioned in another thread the true litmus test will always be winning vs. losing...
Kidding.
As I've mentioned, while W/L is the only thing that matters for the team, I just can't get behind an argument that measures a QB's success only on that. It's not accurate or fair. But we all see it our own way.
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Skullz
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Oh I agree wholeheartedly. But that’s pretty much my point. Hollywood ass players, especially ‘leaders’, will destroy a football team. Because everyone is talented in the NFL. It’s chemistry and belief during adverse times that carry teams to the next level. Talent is only a small part of the equation. Will the browns have the tenacity to overcome adversity this year? ImO the first sign or real adversity, that locker room is going to turn into a shit show. You heard it here first.HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:37 pm:You of all people should know I'm not all that concerned about his personal life, hollywood or anything outside of football. What matters is what he does on the football field, and that's all that matters in these discussions. I have nothing against Carr's wholesome image and his faith or belief system, what I care most about is what he does while on the field, and wearing the uniform... I'm also not worried about having faith in Mayfield as he doesn't play for the Raiders if he tanks no skin off my back that's Cleveland's problem. See what I'm getting at? The game and how it is played is all that matters and Al Davis would have agreed. Same with Madden... be on time, play like hell on Sunday! Pretty elementary!
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Jeevo
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Duke is a Gruden type of back. We should look at replacing Martin with him imo. He may want too much money though.Skullz wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:32 pm: Their backup running back duke johnson was better than any Rb on our roster last year. At the least a better fit. .
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HITMAN
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Oh trust me I don't argue stats like other's do simply because I don't have the time or energy to look that shit up like I once did. We've all had our thoughts and opinions why and some of the causes which I also understand and don't completely ignore them. I've seen some of the greats play QB over the year's and there's just something about watching those guy's you always knew their teams were never completely out of games, Stabler being one of the best in my opinion. Carr just doesn't make me believe that even though he has more talent and tools than Stabler ever possessed. I'm hoping that manifests itself this season, but I'm not selling the farm believing it's going to happen, and I have no problem eating crow, admitting I was wrong if it does happen. I've been wrong before!fellow59 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:39 pm:Alright then, don't argue the stats if you're not arguing the stats!
Kidding.
As I've mentioned, while W/L is the only thing that matters for the team, I just can't get behind an argument that measures a QB's success only on that. It's not accurate or fair. But we all see it our own way.
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Skullz
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There’s plenty of cap space but I also think a lot of their moves are culture related so who knows how they view Duke in that regard. Very underrated player though.Jeevo wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:40 pm:Duke is a Gruden type of back. We should look at replacing Martin with him imo. He may want too much money though.
Jacobs is our Chubb this year. That’s for sure. I actually like Jacobs as a prospect more. Let’s hope he contributes quickly.
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CarrKnight
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Points per game is crucial for our defense along with turnovers. Of course, some people prefer yards per game.Raidernation24 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:00 pm:I'm hoping with the addition of Jacobs, T. Brown and Incognito our run game improves greatly this year. I'd love to see a top 15 rush attack and top pass game with a top 10 overall offense. Get our defense into even the teens in pts per game ranking and suddenly we are a playoff contender.
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fellow59
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Yeah, I just think most people underestimate how much that "confidence" they see is influenced by the team around the QB. Using Stabler as an example kind of puts an exclamation point on it. That guy had some of the greatest lines in football to play behind. It's easy to develop a calm and ease when that's the case. Also, the running game rankings with Stabler as QB - 4, 3, 3, 10, 2, 16, 24.HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:43 pm:Oh trust me I don't argue stats like other's do simply because I don't have the time or energy to look that shit up like I once did. We've all had our thoughts and opinions why and some of the causes which I also understand and don't completely ignore them. I've seen some of the greats play QB over the year's and there's just something about watching those guy's you always knew their teams were never completely out of games, Stabler being one of the best in my opinion. Carr just doesn't make me believe that even though he has more talent and tools than Stabler ever possessed. I'm hoping that manifests itself this season, but I'm not selling the farm believing it's going to happen, and I have no problem eating crow, admitting I was wrong if it does happen. I've been wrong before!
The 2 years Stabler was unable to make the playoffs? When his running game was 16th and 24th. Funny how that works.
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CarrKnight
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It does open up some intriguing alternative history discussion! Do we draft another QB instead? Or just roll the dice with Schwab and Flynn? (I believe it was those two stiffs). After the inevitable awful record, who do we draft in 2015? Still Cooper? Or a QB? Does Del Rio still take the job?Rainman56 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:59 am:Oh how I wish that would have happened.
Would we be in better shape? Not way to really answer it yes or no.
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Skullz
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We’d never have Gruden now so hell no. I’ll even take a failed Carr if that’s what it take to have landed Gruden. Of course there are people here that have zero faith in Gruden I’m just not of them.CarrKnight wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:58 pm:It does open up some intriguing alternative history discussion! Do we draft another QB instead? Or just roll the dice with Schwab and Flynn? (I believe it was those two stiffs). After the inevitable awful record, who do we draft in 2015? Still Cooper? Or a QB? Does Del Rio still take the job?
Would we be in better shape? Not way to really answer it yes or no.
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HITMAN
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I'm not denying Stabler had a great OL in front of him, but even those HOF guy's gave up sacks and he faced pressure too. it's what he did under pressure is what I'm referring to. He was cool even when the heat was coming, and that's what I'm referring to, how these guy's handled a pass rush, how they extended plays to make something happen. In y opinion the jury is still out on Carr. We'll see how he performs with more talent at his disposal.fellow59 wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:56 pm:Yeah, I just think most people underestimate how much that "confidence" they see is influenced by the team around the QB. Using Stabler as an example kind of puts an exclamation point on it. That guy had some of the greatest lines in football to play behind. It's easy to develop a calm and ease when that's the case. Also, the running game rankings with Stabler as QB - 4, 3, 3, 10, 2, 16, 24.
The 2 years Stabler was unable to make the playoffs? When his running game was 16th and 24th. Funny how that works.
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CarrKnight
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Stabler was my father's favorite growing up. I heard all the stories about Stabler to Casper. I wish I could have seen him live or met the man. His Football Life was brilliant. He is a throwback to an era of the NFL that will never exist again but the reason you have that perspective of him is because his Raiders teams were stacked. He could afford to have off games. He had the running game, the lines, the defense, the coaching, an all-time owner operating at peak proficiency. But he had winning seasons with stat lines that were poor even for an era that wasn't space era in passing though passing rules started to be liberalized (1975: 10-3, 16 TD 24 INT, 1978: 9-7, 16 TD 30 INT, 1980 (with Houston): 11-5, 13 TD 28 INT)HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:43 pm:Oh trust me I don't argue stats like other's do simply because I don't have the time or energy to look that shit up like I once did. We've all had our thoughts and opinions why and some of the causes which I also understand and don't completely ignore them. I've seen some of the greats play QB over the year's and there's just something about watching those guy's you always knew their teams were never completely out of games, Stabler being one of the best in my opinion. Carr just doesn't make me believe that even though he has more talent and tools than Stabler ever possessed. I'm hoping that manifests itself this season, but I'm not selling the farm believing it's going to happen, and I have no problem eating crow, admitting I was wrong if it does happen. I've been wrong before!
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CarrKnight
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Yes, Carr needs to find that fire and mobility he had prior to 2017.HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:07 pm:I'm not denying Stabler had a great OL in front of him, but even those HOF guy's gave up sacks and he faced pressure too. it's what he did under pressure is what I'm referring to. He was cool even when the heat was coming, and that's what I'm referring to, how these guy's handled a pass rush, how they extended plays to make something happen. In y opinion the jury is still out on Carr. We'll see how he performs with more talent at his disposal.
By your metric, so Carr is cool under pressure considering he and Stabler are tied in career comeback victories with 16.
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HITMAN
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LOL, not even close my young friend... Gannon also had 16, and Carr is nowhere near Gannon either when it comes to leadership.CarrKnight wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:15 pm:Yes, Carr needs to find that fire and mobility he had prior to 2017.
By your metric, so Carr is cool under pressure considering he and Stabler are tied in career comeback victories with 16.
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grosse gurke
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Mayfield went 1-5 against playoff teams.....how good are the brows really?HITMAN wrote Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:14 pm:Only problem with your argument is Mayfield won't ever take 51 sacks, because he's always trying to make plays, looking for options and isn't afraid to throw it downfield. Mayfield is a competitor, hates losing and works at improving his game, I'm not so sure I can say that about Carr. I would also add Mayfield cares more about winning than personal stats!
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The Joe Joe
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Come on Chucker! Free my boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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