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the powers that created our team thought that Carr NEEDED more on offense to be successful .
If we’re discussing poor debate points.... I think conjecture is worse than hindsight. To say that we spent more on offence because Carr NEEDED it is to say the only reason any teams spend on offence is because their QB NEEDS it.
Other teams spending less on offence and getting better production.... The most plausible explanation for how that could happen is that other teams draft better and find better value in free agency. Again.... that sounds like a front office problem; not a Carr problem.
I’m not a fan of how we’ve allotted our cap either but I’m not about to misplace accountability for what is clearly a front office blunder.
If you want to talk about fuck-ups that our front office has made I’m more than happy to.... Just so long as we’re clear who owns the fuck-up(s) in question.
Offense reliant while the other teams of this model are more balanced Bucs,Titans,Browns, Falcons, and Rams. The Seahawks can be put close to this model but are closer to in between. So
It appears that some of these other teams have been more successful in the draft, trade and free agency as far as the defense is concerned. So this is a model rather than arguing other why they spent more on offense because of who the QB is on the team or his needs.
Now I get this is a Carr thread, just wanted to make that especially clear.
https://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... wn-Gif.gif
;)
Derek Carr, #Raiders
Russell Wilson, Seahawks
Aaron Rodgers, Packers
Ben Roethlisbeger, Steelers
Matt Ryan, Falcons
(3 Super Bowl winners, a SB runner up and Carr)
not hard to deduce what they were thinking there. Next?
Now I get that people want to blame Carr for how the team spends...but when you think about it....the more you spend on defense the less points you need to score on offense. The more you spend on offense the more points you can allow on defense. The sweet spot is what you are looking for....and that is not Carr's responsibility. It is up to the Gruden and Mayock to find that mix that works with existing talent...as well as future acquisitions.
Why does all this fall on Carr?
occam's razor for the win
Im not a Carr hater, its a serious question.
Stop amd ask yourself, do you ever see carr holding up a Lombardi for this franchise?
Think about it, week 1 of every season, you pretty much know who the SB contenders are.... what do you look at... brees, brady, rogers, wilson, kerrmit, you KNOW they have a chance before the season even starts even if you dont look at the rest of the roster.
QB is THE BIGGEST determining factor in vying for the SB.
A great QB makes his whole team play at another level. Look at the Winston bucs vs the Brady bucs, whole other level.
Now again, has Carr shown anything in 8 years to make you think he makes the whole team raise their standard?
No, he is what he is. IF we get a solid defense, he can get us to the playoffs, but I dont think he will ever elevate this team to a SB win.
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Re: The Derek Carr Discussion Thread
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raiders93
Posts: 1,821
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:34 pm
How can you possibly know this:Attyla wrote Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:20 am:yes, but you are still cherry picking the stats to drive home a point that is flawed.
face it, you are viewing this from hindsight but the powers that created our team thought that Carr NEEDED more on offense to be successful and that spending is grossly out of balance. Other MORE successful offenses spent significantly less (and at the same time had players they spent significant money on they did not use due to injury or other factors) and were able to spend on defense and they were more successful overall.
Sorry pal, the hindsight argument is the poorest of base points in a debate.
the powers that created our team thought that Carr NEEDED more on offense to be successful .
If we’re discussing poor debate points.... I think conjecture is worse than hindsight. To say that we spent more on offence because Carr NEEDED it is to say the only reason any teams spend on offence is because their QB NEEDS it.
Other teams spending less on offence and getting better production.... The most plausible explanation for how that could happen is that other teams draft better and find better value in free agency. Again.... that sounds like a front office problem; not a Carr problem.
I’m not a fan of how we’ve allotted our cap either but I’m not about to misplace accountability for what is clearly a front office blunder.
If you want to talk about fuck-ups that our front office has made I’m more than happy to.... Just so long as we’re clear who owns the fuck-up(s) in question.
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RNSupport
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:53 am
Offense reliant while the other teams of this model are more balanced Bucs,Titans,Browns, Falcons, and Rams. The Seahawks can be put close to this model but are closer to in between. So
It appears that some of these other teams have been more successful in the draft, trade and free agency as far as the defense is concerned. So this is a model rather than arguing other why they spent more on offense because of who the QB is on the team or his needs.
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Skullz
Posts: 13,409
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:59 am
Now I get this is a Carr thread, just wanted to make that especially clear.
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Xramfan
"It is what it is..."
Posts: 10,163
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:01 pm
So what you are saying is if we get the right FA`s, the right draft picks, manage the cap, successful player development and the right system..........we may win?Skullz wrote Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:31 pm:When you don’t miss in the draft free agency almost becomes an afterthought. Right now our biggest issue is player development, mainly on defense, and that’s being addressed. People underestimate the ability of front offices to manipulate the cap in order to get the guys they want season to season. The main issue is making sure you get the right guys for your team and system.
Now I get this is a Carr thread, just wanted to make that especially clear.
https://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... wn-Gif.gif
;)
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STHfrontrow
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:24 pm
- STHfrontrow
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Derek Carr, #Raiders
Russell Wilson, Seahawks
Aaron Rodgers, Packers
Ben Roethlisbeger, Steelers
Matt Ryan, Falcons
(3 Super Bowl winners, a SB runner up and Carr)
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Attyla
Literally
Posts: 37,806
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Location: I literally extended the play for … literally, ever.
because I used logic? The offense runs through Carr, he touches the ball every play and on every pass play (the part of the offense they spent the lion share of the cash) he benefited the most.raiders93 wrote Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:43 am:How can you possibly know this:
the powers that created our team thought that Carr NEEDED more on offense to be successful .
If we’re discussing poor debate points.... I think conjecture is worse than hindsight. To say that we spent more on offence because Carr NEEDED it is to say the only reason any teams spend on offence is because their QB NEEDS it.
Other teams spending less on offence and getting better production.... The most plausible explanation for how that could happen is that other teams draft better and find better value in free agency. Again.... that sounds like a front office problem; not a Carr problem.
I’m not a fan of how we’ve allotted our cap either but I’m not about to misplace accountability for what is clearly a front office blunder.
If you want to talk about fuck-ups that our front office has made I’m more than happy to.... Just so long as we’re clear who owns the fuck-up(s) in question.
not hard to deduce what they were thinking there. Next?
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raiders93
Posts: 1,821
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:34 pm
Maybe they were thinking if we get better offensive players.... our offence will be better?Attyla wrote Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:00 am:because I used logic? The offense runs through Carr, he touches the ball every play and on every pass play (the part of the offense they spent the lion share of the cash) he benefited the most.
not hard to deduce what they were thinking there. Next?
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grosse gurke
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- grosse gurke
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Now I get that people want to blame Carr for how the team spends...but when you think about it....the more you spend on defense the less points you need to score on offense. The more you spend on offense the more points you can allow on defense. The sweet spot is what you are looking for....and that is not Carr's responsibility. It is up to the Gruden and Mayock to find that mix that works with existing talent...as well as future acquisitions.
Why does all this fall on Carr?
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grosse gurke
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- grosse gurke
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Ok...so now Carr is to be held accountable for front office spending....that is so ignorant. It's like blaming the guy who stocks shelves for what is on the shelf. Carr has 1 job...run the offense Gruden creates to the best of his ability....thats it. If he cant do that then we need to move on. The rest is out of his control.Attyla wrote Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:00 am:because I used logic? The offense runs through Carr, he touches the ball every play and on every pass play (the part of the offense they spent the lion share of the cash) he benefited the most.
not hard to deduce what they were thinking there. Next?
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Rainman56
Posts: 10,749
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Ivanavich
Trade Mariotta for Foles. Play Foles when Carr falters. Keep both. Win SB with Foles as starter.
Posts: 7,662
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:43 am
Location: Developing the Ivan Plan.
Which team still has the same GM who drafted one of said QBs???STHfrontrow wrote Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:50 am:If Stafford is traded and Brees retires, the only QBs who started in 2014 and will still be on same team are:
Derek Carr, #Raiders
Russell Wilson, Seahawks
Aaron Rodgers, Packers
Ben Roethlisbeger, Steelers
Matt Ryan, Falcons
(3 Super Bowl winners, a SB runner up and Carr)
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Attyla
Literally
Posts: 37,806
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:31 pm
Location: I literally extended the play for … literally, ever.
nice, but where did the spend the money.....on the run offense of the pass offenseraiders93 wrote Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:09 am:Maybe they were thinking if we get better offensive players.... our offence will be better?
occam's razor for the win
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Sokalraider
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- Sokalraider
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GUYDON
Hall of Famer
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Im not a Carr hater, its a serious question.
Stop amd ask yourself, do you ever see carr holding up a Lombardi for this franchise?
Think about it, week 1 of every season, you pretty much know who the SB contenders are.... what do you look at... brees, brady, rogers, wilson, kerrmit, you KNOW they have a chance before the season even starts even if you dont look at the rest of the roster.
QB is THE BIGGEST determining factor in vying for the SB.
A great QB makes his whole team play at another level. Look at the Winston bucs vs the Brady bucs, whole other level.
Now again, has Carr shown anything in 8 years to make you think he makes the whole team raise their standard?
No, he is what he is. IF we get a solid defense, he can get us to the playoffs, but I dont think he will ever elevate this team to a SB win.
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