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I like what sombody else said. Keeping Gabe and resigning Good. Allows Good to play swing Tackle to guard.
Get $14m to spend on defense and a 1st round pick RT might be a lot better then hoping Trent Brown stays healthy for once
I'll leave it to brains trust regards TB, if he is good to go, the keep him otherwise we need an OT and to get a decent one that is generally a 1st round pick so we don't address the position Bradley mentioned in his PC yesterday- the front 4.
Not saying this cannot be addressed in FA but something to consider.
Regards the potential free agents and cuts TW will be gone, Nelly can get some of his money, Hankins is a keeper.
A question- will the cap go down? If too many teams are affected won't the league put a floor on it that allowed all teams to operate on an equal basis rather have a free for all with teams dumping productive players purely for financial reasons? Chucker possibly one for you?
If Richie is agreeable to a lesser deal, I hope they bring him back. Not only is he one nasty dude, I think he brings a tenacity to the entire line. He's older and might not be as healthy - but he was routinely one of the highest graded guards in the league when he's on the field. JMO!
Jacobs said they tried something new and they went back to basics second half against Broncos and it worked well
As for the cap, the estimate is currently low. 180ish? But I think when push comes to shove it will be a bit higher. I think we won't be over the cap initially, but will need to make moves in order to have cash to pursue the players we want.
Until I see a fall in his play, I still believe he has what it takes. And again, if 2020 was any indicator, the offensive line needs as much good depth as they can muster.
Trent Brown is also our best Tackle but he couldn't stay fit either.
Paid $28m last year for barely two games between them. Imagine if we paid that on defence on a real DT, FS or paid Byron Jones. O-Line has shown it can cope without them and yes they are better players than those replacing them but it's about where can the resources be better used.
If we did re-sign Richie, it would be as insurance against having to depend on Simpson at OG and to me that's a worthwhile spend. He was vastly underpaid 2 years ago, vastly overpaid this year, so may be willing to take a cheap deal again to show he can still play..
We absolutely can't depend in Brown and while we might roll the dice one more year, I'd rather give the money to Good and draft a quality RT
Would be one of the better fits for us, but he hasn't declared for the draft yet.
With some clever cap moves, I think we may be able to afford two elite guys at around $15m each for this years cap hit. Cap won't be a problem going forward, but I think we could squeeze about $30 total towards elite guys.
I think we should use that on a mix of 3-tech, LEO and FS. We need to sign two elite and draft one.
Scenario 1:
Sign Leonard Williams
Sign Carl Lawson/Yannick Nganoue
Draft Trevon Moehrig.
Scenario 2:
Sign Carl Lawson/Yannick Nganoue
Sign Justin Simmons/other elite FS
Draft Baremore
Scenario 3:
Sign Leonard Williams
Sign Justin Simmons/other elite FS
Draft LEO (Ossai? or even Paye if he were to drop).
Personally, I think I'd prefer the first scenario. Give me Williams, Lawson/Yannick and draft Moehrig. We could even possibly sign someone like Malik Hooker to a one year deal and not have to draft a FS.
He could go anywhere because it's easy for a team anywhere to fall in love with him.
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Re: Raiders select at #17 in 2021 Draft
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WolfRaider
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We played the whole year without two of them already. Good was more of the starter last year then Richie.DrDUne wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 am:I, for one, don't want to see the Raidiers get rid of 3 offensive lineman. I keep seeing Brown, Jackson, and Incognito as cap casualties - but don't see this happening.
We know that Carr's success relies heavily on clean pockets and avoiding pressure. I think his advocates and haters can agree that he's a different QB when he has time vs when he's constantly pressured. He's not like some of the other QB's around the league who can scramble on a play by paly basis and make plays, he wants to sit in the pocket and deal. And he's damn good when he has that time.
That being said, unloading 3 lineman seems too risky. I believe 1 may go, but don't see the front office getting rid of 60% of the line when the QB's play is so dependent upon their performance. And as we saw this year, they need all the depth they can afford.
I like what sombody else said. Keeping Gabe and resigning Good. Allows Good to play swing Tackle to guard.
Get $14m to spend on defense and a 1st round pick RT might be a lot better then hoping Trent Brown stays healthy for once
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Diesis
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If Cog is fit I would keep him for his aggression, if he isn't move Gabe back to where he started his career and he was effective. Not sure about Simpson as he seems to end on the ground too often but he is a rookie so he gets a pass.NoThanksSir wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:36 am:I think you move on from Incognito if necessary. But with the o-line, consistency and chemistry is a big deal. I don't think it is as simple as replacing a guy with a cheaper option and hoping for the best. We will take a significant step back if we start tinkering with the o-line. Why make more holes on a team rife with them?
We've got about 12 mill tied up in two marginal players on defense, Joyner and Heath. Incognito is another 6 million, Twilliams 11 million, Mariota 10 million. The guys I mentioned alone can get you almost $40 mill. You can free up cap space without killing the Quarterback.
I'll leave it to brains trust regards TB, if he is good to go, the keep him otherwise we need an OT and to get a decent one that is generally a 1st round pick so we don't address the position Bradley mentioned in his PC yesterday- the front 4.
Not saying this cannot be addressed in FA but something to consider.
Regards the potential free agents and cuts TW will be gone, Nelly can get some of his money, Hankins is a keeper.
A question- will the cap go down? If too many teams are affected won't the league put a floor on it that allowed all teams to operate on an equal basis rather have a free for all with teams dumping productive players purely for financial reasons? Chucker possibly one for you?
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DrDUne
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Yes they did. And I believe the running game (as a whole) suffered for it. They did a commendable job in pass protection, but clearly the running game wasn't as efficient.WolfRaider wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 am:We played the whole year without two of them already. Good was more of the starter last year then Richie.
I like what sombody else said. Keeping Gabe and resigning Good. Allows Good to play swing Tackle to guard.
Get $14m to spend on defense and a 1st round pick RT might be a lot better then hoping Trent Brown stays healthy for once
If Richie is agreeable to a lesser deal, I hope they bring him back. Not only is he one nasty dude, I think he brings a tenacity to the entire line. He's older and might not be as healthy - but he was routinely one of the highest graded guards in the league when he's on the field. JMO!
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WolfRaider
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Richie is a luxury. Especially with Good being out of contract. 38 by the time the season starts.DrDUne wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:27 am:Yes they did. And I believe the running game (as a whole) suffered for it. They did a commendable job in pass protection, but clearly the running game wasn't as efficient.
If Richie is agreeable to a lesser deal, I hope they bring him back. Not only is he one nasty dude, I think he brings a tenacity to the entire line. He's older and might not be as healthy - but he was routinely one of the highest graded guards in the league when he's on the field. JMO!
Jacobs said they tried something new and they went back to basics second half against Broncos and it worked well
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NoThanksSir
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I agree with you that us as fans don't have enough context regarding Trent Brown. I'll admit, his absence got under my skin. But at 14-15 million a guy of his caliber is a steal. The only person that can make that call is Gruden. None of us know enough to say he should be cut. Especially when he hasn't put bad tape out there for us.Diesis wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:59 am:If Cog is fit I would keep him for his aggression, if he isn't move Gabe back to where he started his career and he was effective. Not sure about Simpson as he seems to end on the ground too often but he is a rookie so he gets a pass.
I'll leave it to brains trust regards TB, if he is good to go, the keep him otherwise we need an OT and to get a decent one that is generally a 1st round pick so we don't address the position Bradley mentioned in his PC yesterday- the front 4.
Not saying this cannot be addressed in FA but something to consider.
Regards the potential free agents and cuts TW will be gone, Nelly can get some of his money, Hankins is a keeper.
A question- will the cap go down? If too many teams are affected won't the league put a floor on it that allowed all teams to operate on an equal basis rather have a free for all with teams dumping productive players purely for financial reasons? Chucker possibly one for you?
As for the cap, the estimate is currently low. 180ish? But I think when push comes to shove it will be a bit higher. I think we won't be over the cap initially, but will need to make moves in order to have cash to pursue the players we want.
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DrDUne
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I disagree with Richie being a luxury. A 'luxury' would only be applicable if they were paying him more than two equally competent or better starters. Marcus Mariota being paid $10M to sit behind Carr is a good example of a luxury.WolfRaider wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:48 am:Richie is a luxury. Especially with Good being out of contract. 38 by the time the season starts.
Jacobs said they tried something new and they went back to basics second half against Broncos and it worked well
Until I see a fall in his play, I still believe he has what it takes. And again, if 2020 was any indicator, the offensive line needs as much good depth as they can muster.
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WolfRaider
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6m for a guard that played one game in the last year thats 38 when Good replaced him and played well. Especially when Morrow and Hankins are also out of contract that in the last year had a much bigger impact then him.DrDUne wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:37 am:I disagree with Richie being a luxury. A 'luxury' would only be applicable if they were paying him more than two equally competent or better starters. Marcus Mariota being paid $10M to sit behind Carr is a good example of a luxury.
Until I see a fall in his play, I still believe he has what it takes. And again, if 2020 was any indicator, the offensive line needs as much good depth as they can muster.
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DrDUne
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Well, you're ignoring the my first response of, "If Richie is agreeable to a lesser deal, I hope they bring him back." Good replaced him and did play well. But when Richie played, he was better. When Richie played, he was better than Jackson. He is certainly better than Simpson at this point in his young career. We will just have to agree to disagree.WolfRaider wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:44 am:6m for a guard that played one game in the last year thats 38 when Good replaced him and played well. Especially when Morrow and Hankins are also out of contract that in the last year had a much bigger impact then him.
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NoThanksSir
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WolfRaider
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It's all gambling that he recovers and stays fit. We need to make cap and even if Richie takes half, would still have to pay Good to cover.DrDUne wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:47 am:Well, you're ignoring the my first response of, "If Richie is agreeable to a lesser deal, I hope they bring him back." Good replaced him and did play well. But when Richie played, he was better. When Richie played, he was better than Jackson. He is certainly better than Simpson at this point in his young career. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Trent Brown is also our best Tackle but he couldn't stay fit either.
Paid $28m last year for barely two games between them. Imagine if we paid that on defence on a real DT, FS or paid Byron Jones. O-Line has shown it can cope without them and yes they are better players than those replacing them but it's about where can the resources be better used.
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buanadha
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We need to sign Good, no matter what. We can't depend on Richie or Brown at this point and Good can play both positions.WolfRaider wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:12 pm:It's all gambling that he recovers and stays fit. We need to make cap and even if Richie takes half, would still have to pay Good to cover.
Trent Brown is also our best Tackle but he couldn't stay fit either.
Paid $28m last year for barely two games between them. Imagine if we paid that on defence on a real DT, FS or paid Byron Jones. O-Line has shown it can cope without them and yes they are better players than those replacing them but it's about where can the resources be better used.
If we did re-sign Richie, it would be as insurance against having to depend on Simpson at OG and to me that's a worthwhile spend. He was vastly underpaid 2 years ago, vastly overpaid this year, so may be willing to take a cheap deal again to show he can still play..
We absolutely can't depend in Brown and while we might roll the dice one more year, I'd rather give the money to Good and draft a quality RT
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Raider87
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Would be one of the better fits for us, but he hasn't declared for the draft yet.
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imthedan
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Barmore would be a solid pick if we miss out on Leonard Williams. If we get Williams, then we really don't need Barmore.Raider87 wrote Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:55 pm:Christian Barmore is talented enough to go in the top 10, but also raw and inexperienced enough to be there at 17.
Would be one of the better fits for us, but he hasn't declared for the draft yet.
With some clever cap moves, I think we may be able to afford two elite guys at around $15m each for this years cap hit. Cap won't be a problem going forward, but I think we could squeeze about $30 total towards elite guys.
I think we should use that on a mix of 3-tech, LEO and FS. We need to sign two elite and draft one.
Scenario 1:
Sign Leonard Williams
Sign Carl Lawson/Yannick Nganoue
Draft Trevon Moehrig.
Scenario 2:
Sign Carl Lawson/Yannick Nganoue
Sign Justin Simmons/other elite FS
Draft Baremore
Scenario 3:
Sign Leonard Williams
Sign Justin Simmons/other elite FS
Draft LEO (Ossai? or even Paye if he were to drop).
Personally, I think I'd prefer the first scenario. Give me Williams, Lawson/Yannick and draft Moehrig. We could even possibly sign someone like Malik Hooker to a one year deal and not have to draft a FS.
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WolfRaider
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He could go anywhere because it's easy for a team anywhere to fall in love with him.
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imthedan
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I like Barmore. If we don't get Leonard Williams, then he could very well be the pick.WolfRaider wrote Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:01 am:A lot of draft people have Barmore as a second round pick. Because even though he flashes elite skills he's often hiding and body shape is hard to place him on a starting spot. Too heavy for a consistent 3tec but not big enough or good enough against the run for 1tec. But he shows up in big games, is he clutch or just have a low motor?
He could go anywhere because it's easy for a team anywhere to fall in love with him.
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