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Jack of all trades, Swiss army knife, tweener, needs to be coached up, potential, heart exploded, heart murmur, pending legal issues, off field issues, 2 years of college experience and reach
-on draft day
Just announce we selected a very solid football player. I dont care what position he plays.
No, you can't have it both ways. Mayock was hired because of his reputation as someone who could evaluate college talent and creating mock drafts. But now that he is GM, all of sudden all of his colleagues know diddly?
Now, what any GM and his scouting team and any draft guru will admit - evaluating college talent is far from scientific even though they have continually attempted to quantify as much about the player as they can. So, yes agree that is always a bit of crapshoot, no matter what. And also will agree that going rogue and ignoring the consensus is probably not going to improve your chances.
I think some people still romanticize about that time when Al (younger version) would buck trends and prove himself more knowledgeable. But sad to say times have changed. Accessing college talent has become more complex and far more information is out there and well, more people are being paid to do just that. Hell it has become an industry. So what was once a field owned by the scouts and GMs; it is now very much something that is done outside of the football organizations and they are getting better and better at it. And also, to simply say that all the draft gurus just listen to one guy is simply nonsense. It flies in the face of everything that is actually happening in the field. No, now there are many in the field who are paid to just do that and to share that info with us the fans. And PLEASE remember Mayock was one of them.
So I guess you can choose to sit back and embrace the contradiction unwittingly and state that the draft gurus know shit and yet, one of them who became a GM became all of sudden the smartest man in the room OR you can accept the reality that you need not be hired by a team to be an astute evaluator of college talent and to understand that conventional wisdom has some merits. It is not like draft gurus do not have access to combine numbers or are unable to attend player workouts.
If anything draft gurus have an advantage of not having their choices sabotaged by meddling coaches or owners.
I kinda wish we had addressed RT in FA but our other options is our homegrown RT Parker is not the greatest of options. Darrisaw would immediately pass up Parker.
For me any-way I think people get confused (I do sometimes) between the mock drafts and the actual player rankings. That's why when I look at a mock by someone Kiper etc I also go back & look at their rankings of players. That's what I call a reach....
Mock drafts include "reaches". I'll give an example from this draft. Most mock drafts have SF taking Mac Jones. But if you look at where they the mock draft "experts" rank Jones he's no where near the 3rd best player in the draft. Now who knows maby he will justify being the 3rd pick. But far too many times that's what the Raiders have done over the years. Take a player way higher than where he was ranked.....
Cee Dee Lamb had 74-935. Ruggs had 26-452. Cee Dee is a better WR IMO. I would still take Josh Allen every time over Ferrell. I also would have wanted White or Bush over Ferrell.....And I'm not trying to say I'm an expert but many of these high Raider draft picks through the years boggle the mind....
Many of us hated the Arnette pick and still do....
(edit) Here is another example in reverse. These experts including Mayock when he was doing them might have a RB ranked pretty high (some-where in round 1) in their best players but in their mocks have them going round two because they aren't valued....
Jacobs was one of those players. The Raiders smartly took him where he went at 24. Most experts had him a round 1 talent. (around 24 some higher) in their best players ranking. But some mocks had him going in the 2nd round because RBs arent valued....
The objective of mock drafting is to predict how the draft will end up. Predicting is the key word here. Mock drafting has nothing to do with figuring out who would be the best draft choice for the team picking at each spot.
The Raiders GM is drafting for the Raiders. Mock drafters are trying to PREDICT who the Raiders GM will take.
Shoulda
Coulda
Woulda
that's fan talk, not mock drafter talk. The talking heads who put out mock drafts every week or so give a "description" of the mocked player which is often no where near being accurate and also give a "rationale" for the predicted pick and it too is often no where near accurate.
--It works like this... somebody else reported that currently a LB and a DT are the top positions being mocked to the Raiders at #17, and some of the talking heads actually claim that the Raiders are in desperate need of a LB or a DT,
so those picks make 'mock drafter sense' even though 'common sense' (that thing that doesn't exist but people claim that it does, so I'll use it here) says that Free Safety is the biggest need followed by OT.
The only way the Raiders draft a LB at #17 is if Mark Davis decided to tank the 2021 season and needed a draft pick to sell it.
Mock drafting is a joke. The Raiders GM isn't mock drafting, he's picking roster talent. Two completely different things. Mark Davis didn't hire Mayock because he liked his mock drafts.
if you think for a moment they care about all the wrong picks you are nuts. they hang their hats on who follows them and the revenue they drive
I have a feeling there will be more than a few dropped jaws on day one
I personally want to trade back if given the chance.
What's the worst that could happen? A losing season or 20?
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Re: Raiders select at #17 in 2021 Draft
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Attyla
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actually reaches exist in reality. DHB was a reach and everyone knew it as soon as the pick was announced. And that is just one example from our team. His career just validated it. Sometimes a reach has nothing to do with talent, as in the case of Lawrence Phillips who was a reach because of the risk associated with his actions in college. Based on talent alone, he was a top 3 pick and could have gone #1. Same with Todd Marinovich, his talent was top 10 but his head was UDR level. Once in a while, the opposite happens, Dan Marino was drafted at the bottom of round one. On talent alone he was projected a top pick but the drug rumors pushed him down. But it does not take hindsight to see a reach.CWood24 wrote Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:12 pm:So let me get this straight if the whole NFL values a player at 17 & we draft him at 17 but all the mock drafts have him as a late 2nd round pick that means we’ve reached for him?
How are we doing this because every year Raiders fan complain that we’ve reach because Mel Kiper, Daniel Jeremiah, Matt Miller etc said so, can we all agree on a consensus mock draft board to go off
I’m still seeing fans go on about Josh Allen & Ceedee Lamb when both haven't produced to show that they are better picks
All i need a 17 is a player who fills a need that can play i dont care about BPA it a ridiculous concept, if they come in & do what Miller & Ferrell produced last year then you can’t ask for much more although there is always room to improve
REACHES ONLY EXIST IN HINDSIGHT
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KillerRaider30
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Jack of all trades, Swiss army knife, tweener, needs to be coached up, potential, heart exploded, heart murmur, pending legal issues, off field issues, 2 years of college experience and reach
-on draft day
Just announce we selected a very solid football player. I dont care what position he plays.
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BobbyPhil1781
B/c some are confused: I don't want to keep Carr but I don't want to get worse at the position
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You forgot the "It factor" but I agreeKillerRaider30 wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:39 am:I dont wat to hear-
Jack of all trades, Swiss army knife, tweener, needs to be coached up, potential, heart exploded, heart murmur, pending legal issues, off field issues, 2 years of college experience and reach
-on draft day
Just announce we selected a very solid football player. I dont care what position he plays.
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heavyD
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signal
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I definitely think there is some truth in what you say. People dismissing the mock drafts or the draft gurus rating systems as silly sort of nonsense make me chuckle because in the same breath they embrace Mayock as the smartest guy in the room. BUT, how is it that mock drafts and rating systems are silly when Mayock established his reputation doing just that. Or is it that Mayock was silly but as soon as he became a GM he all of sudden grew a brain and became the smartest man in the room? Just wondering because it appears that is exactly what some are saying.heavyD wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:03 am:I believe Miller was considered a reach at 15th as he was considered a late 1st, early 2nd round player. He worked out but Gruden’s trend of reaching in the first round hasn’t paid off after that. In general the draft is a crapshoot but continually going against the consensus makes it even more difficult as it’s odds of everyone being wrong are a lot lower than going rogue.
No, you can't have it both ways. Mayock was hired because of his reputation as someone who could evaluate college talent and creating mock drafts. But now that he is GM, all of sudden all of his colleagues know diddly?
Now, what any GM and his scouting team and any draft guru will admit - evaluating college talent is far from scientific even though they have continually attempted to quantify as much about the player as they can. So, yes agree that is always a bit of crapshoot, no matter what. And also will agree that going rogue and ignoring the consensus is probably not going to improve your chances.
I think some people still romanticize about that time when Al (younger version) would buck trends and prove himself more knowledgeable. But sad to say times have changed. Accessing college talent has become more complex and far more information is out there and well, more people are being paid to do just that. Hell it has become an industry. So what was once a field owned by the scouts and GMs; it is now very much something that is done outside of the football organizations and they are getting better and better at it. And also, to simply say that all the draft gurus just listen to one guy is simply nonsense. It flies in the face of everything that is actually happening in the field. No, now there are many in the field who are paid to just do that and to share that info with us the fans. And PLEASE remember Mayock was one of them.
So I guess you can choose to sit back and embrace the contradiction unwittingly and state that the draft gurus know shit and yet, one of them who became a GM became all of sudden the smartest man in the room OR you can accept the reality that you need not be hired by a team to be an astute evaluator of college talent and to understand that conventional wisdom has some merits. It is not like draft gurus do not have access to combine numbers or are unable to attend player workouts.
If anything draft gurus have an advantage of not having their choices sabotaged by meddling coaches or owners.
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Attyla
Doom and Gloom Until Otherwise Notified
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I kinda wish we had addressed RT in FA but our other options is our homegrown RT Parker is not the greatest of options. Darrisaw would immediately pass up Parker.
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novaraider
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It would make perfect sense to take him--- but I would have doubts that we would take him if he were there--- we are the Raiders. Moehrig or the tackle from Clemson are both guys I could see us taking and a lot of us (myself included) going "noooooooo....." after that.Attyla wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:54 am:if Darrisaw is there at our pick we are taking him, no doubt in my mind.
I kinda wish we had addressed RT in FA but our other options is our homegrown RT Parker is not the greatest of options. Darrisaw would immediately pass up Parker.
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novaraider
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Meddling coaches or owners?---- surely that doesnt apply to this franchise right?signal wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:47 am:I definitely think there is some truth in what you say. People dismissing the mock drafts or the draft gurus rating systems as silly sort of nonsense make me chuckle because in the same breath they embrace Mayock as the smartest guy in the room. BUT, how is it that mock drafts and rating systems are silly when Mayock established his reputation doing just that. Or is it that Mayock was silly but as soon as he became a GM he all of sudden grew a brain and became the smartest man in the room? Just wondering because it appears that is exactly what some are saying.
No, you can't have it both ways. Mayock was hired because of his reputation as someone who could evaluate college talent and creating mock drafts. But now that he is GM, all of sudden all of his colleagues know diddly?
Now, what any GM and his scouting team and any draft guru will admit - evaluating college talent is far from scientific even though they have continually attempted to quantify as much about the player as they can. So, yes agree that is always a bit of crapshoot, no matter what. And also will agree that going rogue and ignoring the consensus is probably not going to improve your chances.
I think some people still romanticize about that time when Al (younger version) would buck trends and prove himself more knowledgeable. But sad to say times have changed. Accessing college talent has become more complex and far more information is out there and well, more people are being paid to do just that. Hell it has become an industry. So what was once a field owned by the scouts and GMs; it is now very much something that is done outside of the football organizations and they are getting better and better at it. And also, to simply say that all the draft gurus just listen to one guy is simply nonsense. It flies in the face of everything that is actually happening in the field. No, now there are many in the field who are paid to just do that and to share that info with us the fans. And PLEASE remember Mayock was one of them.
So I guess you can choose to sit back and embrace the contradiction unwittingly and state that the draft gurus know shit and yet, one of them who became a GM became all of sudden the smartest man in the room OR you can accept the reality that you need not be hired by a team to be an astute evaluator of college talent and to understand that conventional wisdom has some merits. It is not like draft gurus do not have access to combine numbers or are unable to attend player workouts.
If anything draft gurus have an advantage of not having their choices sabotaged by meddling coaches or owners.
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Fade2SilverAndBlack
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(I'm not trying to be an ass toward you) IMO for the 4th player taken Ferrell did nothing but hurt us. With the 4th player in the draft you need more production than a Ferrell.....CWood24 wrote Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:12 pm:So let me get this straight if the whole NFL values a player at 17 & we draft him at 17 but all the mock drafts have him as a late 2nd round pick that means we’ve reached for him?
How are we doing this because every year Raiders fan complain that we’ve reach because Mel Kiper, Daniel Jeremiah, Matt Miller etc said so, can we all agree on a consensus mock draft board to go off
I’m still seeing fans go on about Josh Allen & Ceedee Lamb when both haven't produced to show that they are better picks
All i need a 17 is a player who fills a need that can play i dont care about BPA it a ridiculous concept, if they come in & do what Miller & Ferrell produced last year then you can’t ask for much more although there is always room to improve
REACHES ONLY EXIST IN HINDSIGHT
For me any-way I think people get confused (I do sometimes) between the mock drafts and the actual player rankings. That's why when I look at a mock by someone Kiper etc I also go back & look at their rankings of players. That's what I call a reach....
Mock drafts include "reaches". I'll give an example from this draft. Most mock drafts have SF taking Mac Jones. But if you look at where they the mock draft "experts" rank Jones he's no where near the 3rd best player in the draft. Now who knows maby he will justify being the 3rd pick. But far too many times that's what the Raiders have done over the years. Take a player way higher than where he was ranked.....
Cee Dee Lamb had 74-935. Ruggs had 26-452. Cee Dee is a better WR IMO. I would still take Josh Allen every time over Ferrell. I also would have wanted White or Bush over Ferrell.....And I'm not trying to say I'm an expert but many of these high Raider draft picks through the years boggle the mind....
Many of us hated the Arnette pick and still do....
(edit) Here is another example in reverse. These experts including Mayock when he was doing them might have a RB ranked pretty high (some-where in round 1) in their best players but in their mocks have them going round two because they aren't valued....
Jacobs was one of those players. The Raiders smartly took him where he went at 24. Most experts had him a round 1 talent. (around 24 some higher) in their best players ranking. But some mocks had him going in the 2nd round because RBs arent valued....
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Ivanavich
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I'm sorry, but you are way off.signal wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:47 am:I definitely think there is some truth in what you say. People dismissing the mock drafts or the draft gurus rating systems as silly sort of nonsense make me chuckle because in the same breath they embrace Mayock as the smartest guy in the room. BUT, how is it that mock drafts and rating systems are silly when Mayock established his reputation doing just that. Or is it that Mayock was silly but as soon as he became a GM he all of sudden grew a brain and became the smartest man in the room? Just wondering because it appears that is exactly what some are saying.
No, you can't have it both ways. Mayock was hired because of his reputation as someone who could evaluate college talent and creating mock drafts. But now that he is GM, all of sudden all of his colleagues know diddly?
Now, what any GM and his scouting team and any draft guru will admit - evaluating college talent is far from scientific even though they have continually attempted to quantify as much about the player as they can. So, yes agree that is always a bit of crapshoot, no matter what. And also will agree that going rogue and ignoring the consensus is probably not going to improve your chances.
I think some people still romanticize about that time when Al (younger version) would buck trends and prove himself more knowledgeable. But sad to say times have changed. Accessing college talent has become more complex and far more information is out there and well, more people are being paid to do just that. Hell it has become an industry. So what was once a field owned by the scouts and GMs; it is now very much something that is done outside of the football organizations and they are getting better and better at it. And also, to simply say that all the draft gurus just listen to one guy is simply nonsense. It flies in the face of everything that is actually happening in the field. No, now there are many in the field who are paid to just do that and to share that info with us the fans. And PLEASE remember Mayock was one of them.
So I guess you can choose to sit back and embrace the contradiction unwittingly and state that the draft gurus know shit and yet, one of them who became a GM became all of sudden the smartest man in the room OR you can accept the reality that you need not be hired by a team to be an astute evaluator of college talent and to understand that conventional wisdom has some merits. It is not like draft gurus do not have access to combine numbers or are unable to attend player workouts.
If anything draft gurus have an advantage of not having their choices sabotaged by meddling coaches or owners.
The objective of mock drafting is to predict how the draft will end up. Predicting is the key word here. Mock drafting has nothing to do with figuring out who would be the best draft choice for the team picking at each spot.
The Raiders GM is drafting for the Raiders. Mock drafters are trying to PREDICT who the Raiders GM will take.
Shoulda
Coulda
Woulda
that's fan talk, not mock drafter talk. The talking heads who put out mock drafts every week or so give a "description" of the mocked player which is often no where near being accurate and also give a "rationale" for the predicted pick and it too is often no where near accurate.
--It works like this... somebody else reported that currently a LB and a DT are the top positions being mocked to the Raiders at #17, and some of the talking heads actually claim that the Raiders are in desperate need of a LB or a DT,
so those picks make 'mock drafter sense' even though 'common sense' (that thing that doesn't exist but people claim that it does, so I'll use it here) says that Free Safety is the biggest need followed by OT.
The only way the Raiders draft a LB at #17 is if Mark Davis decided to tank the 2021 season and needed a draft pick to sell it.
Mock drafting is a joke. The Raiders GM isn't mock drafting, he's picking roster talent. Two completely different things. Mark Davis didn't hire Mayock because he liked his mock drafts.
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novaraider
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"The Raiders GM is drafting for the Raiders"-- speaking of being way offIvanavich wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:38 am:I'm sorry, but you are way off.
The objective of mock drafting is to predict how the draft will end up. Predicting is the key word here. Mock drafting has nothing to do with figuring out who would be the best draft choice for the team picking at each spot.
The Raiders GM is drafting for the Raiders. Mock drafters are trying to PREDICT who the Raiders GM will take.
Shoulda
Coulda
Woulda
that's fan talk, not mock drafter talk. The talking heads who put out mock drafts every week or so give a "description" of the mocked player which is often no where near being accurate and also give a "rationale" for the predicted pick and it too is often no where near accurate.
--It works like this... somebody else reported that currently a LB and a DT are the top positions being mocked to the Raiders at #17, and some of the talking heads actually claim that the Raiders are in desperate need of a LB or a DT,
so those picks make 'mock drafter sense' even though 'common sense' (that thing that doesn't exist but people claim that it does, so I'll use it here) says that Free Safety is the biggest need followed by OT.
The only way the Raiders draft a LB at #17 is if Mark Davis decided to tank the 2021 season and needed a draft pick to sell it.
Mock drafting is a joke. The Raiders GM isn't mock drafting, he's picking roster talent. Two completely different things. Mark Davis didn't hire Mayock because he liked his mock drafts.
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Attyla
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you are wrong. the objective of mock drafting is to create conversation. It is not about being right because the average mock drafter gets a very small percentage of the picks right. By your standard, some of the best in the business would be out of a job. No, the purpose of mock drafting, from its beginnings with guys like Kiper, is to get people talking. As the internet age blossomed, it was to drive hits and create discussion.Ivanavich wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:38 am:I'm sorry, but you are way off.
The objective of mock drafting is to predict how the draft will end up. Predicting is the key word here. Mock drafting has nothing to do with figuring out who would be the best draft choice for the team picking at each spot.
The Raiders GM is drafting for the Raiders. Mock drafters are trying to PREDICT who the Raiders GM will take.
Shoulda
Coulda
Woulda
that's fan talk, not mock drafter talk. The talking heads who put out mock drafts every week or so give a "description" of the mocked player which is often no where near being accurate and also give a "rationale" for the predicted pick and it too is often no where near accurate.
--It works like this... somebody else reported that currently a LB and a DT are the top positions being mocked to the Raiders at #17, and some of the talking heads actually claim that the Raiders are in desperate need of a LB or a DT,
so those picks make 'mock drafter sense' even though 'common sense' (that thing that doesn't exist but people claim that it does, so I'll use it here) says that Free Safety is the biggest need followed by OT.
The only way the Raiders draft a LB at #17 is if Mark Davis decided to tank the 2021 season and needed a draft pick to sell it.
Mock drafting is a joke. The Raiders GM isn't mock drafting, he's picking roster talent. Two completely different things. Mark Davis didn't hire Mayock because he liked his mock drafts.
if you think for a moment they care about all the wrong picks you are nuts. they hang their hats on who follows them and the revenue they drive
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signal
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Ummm... that is why I also mentioned rankings or rating systems. They do not simply mock...they rate players. IF Mayock was not chosen because of his work as someone who ranked players in drafts and created mocks ...then please tell me why he was chosen? The man spent his adult life doing this, but was chosen for some other reason? Please let me know what it is?Ivanavich wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:38 am:I'm sorry, but you are way off.
The objective of mock drafting is to predict how the draft will end up. Predicting is the key word here. Mock drafting has nothing to do with figuring out who would be the best draft choice for the team picking at each spot.
The Raiders GM is drafting for the Raiders. Mock drafters are trying to PREDICT who the Raiders GM will take.
Shoulda
Coulda
Woulda
that's fan talk, not mock drafter talk. The talking heads who put out mock drafts every week or so give a "description" of the mocked player which is often no where near being accurate and also give a "rationale" for the predicted pick and it too is often no where near accurate.
--It works like this... somebody else reported that currently a LB and a DT are the top positions being mocked to the Raiders at #17, and some of the talking heads actually claim that the Raiders are in desperate need of a LB or a DT,
so those picks make 'mock drafter sense' even though 'common sense' (that thing that doesn't exist but people claim that it does, so I'll use it here) says that Free Safety is the biggest need followed by OT.
The only way the Raiders draft a LB at #17 is if Mark Davis decided to tank the 2021 season and needed a draft pick to sell it.
Mock drafting is a joke. The Raiders GM isn't mock drafting, he's picking roster talent. Two completely different things. Mark Davis didn't hire Mayock because he liked his mock drafts.
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GUYDON
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I have a feeling there will be more than a few dropped jaws on day one
I personally want to trade back if given the chance.
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Sold My Soul
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Screw that. I say we trade em all this year and next to move up to number one., than take the next 2 years off.GUYDON wrote Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:43 pm:What ever happens at pick 17 half of the board will hate the pick, and half the board will defend the pick.
I have a feeling there will be more than a few dropped jaws on day one
I personally want to trade back if given the chance.
What's the worst that could happen? A losing season or 20?
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