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Return To Behind Enemy Lines
If and most likely when Carr plays like average Carr and we score 17 points a game for a stretch these and more will all be paraded as to why it isn’t Carrs fault
If we had continued to balance the money used on both sides of the ball, we would have found ourselves where the 49’ers are, where the Chiefs and Rams were, and where the Vikings will be.
We have the same thing in Carr as a Garoppolo, a Smith, a Goff, and a Cousins. If around them you build a strong team, and don’t rely on them as “foundation” pieces, you may find yourself in the playoffs, and in the case of the 9’ers with JG on a hot streak, even a Super Bowl.
Though that is a house of cards. Eventually you’ll need to finally upgrade the quarterback position in order to push the team into the realm of constant championship contender.
And that’s about as kind a word as I can give Carr. We didn’t need to draft his replacement this year cause the team isn’t ready, and the draft didn’t make it a wise move anyway. Next year though…
We know what we have. We know what needs to be done. I’m hoping (more than knowing), that we finally have an astute front office that can get us there.
Replys have been Carr needs a entire supporting cast around him to succeed.
Well yea, thats what playoff teams have.
I personally feel Derek has the skills to drive the offense. Hes accomplished it with far less talent especially on the outside though it hasn't resulted in wins.
If and I mean IF the team wants to be respected and feared then they must have a defense worthy of instilling it.
Only then will we be placed among the teams at the top.
How I've viewed the Raiders thes last 8 years is this, good to pretty good offense but nooo defense.
Teams who play the Raiders probably feel the same way.
Aaah they have no defense we have a very good chance at beating them.
There simply isn’t enough money that we are allowed to spend that can counteract the flaws with Carr’s ability in pressure situations. We can’t afford both an All Pro offensive line, upper tier receivers/tight ends/running backs, AND spend the necessary funds to acquire a Defense that’s at least in the upper-half of the NFL.
The one tiny shot would be to have the type of draft/free agency that people talk about years later. For instance the draft and free agency that Seattle had to create the “Legion of Boom”. What they accomplished was even more difficult to pull off than drafting an “elite” quarterback. They nailed the draft picks AND nailed the free agent acquisitions.
As much as Carr supporters like him and believe in him, he “is who he is”. He has had one single year with a top ten red-zone efficiency. He has exactly the same difficulties with pressure that he was labeled with coming out of college. That means counting his college years, that’s 12 years where nearly every year he’s played organized football he’s had a problem with pressure. The one decent year was 2016 when we had an offensive line being discussed with the Cowboys as the best offensive line in the NFL, and we actually spent more on our defense than our offense. Problem was, folks need to get paid, and alas, salary cap. We couldn’t hold it all together under the salary cap, and Carr’s injury brought back his biggest flaw stronger than ever before. Taking him from 7th in red zone efficiency in 2016, to 28th the very next year.
It’s hard enough to get to the Super Bowl with an “elite” quarterback, it’s crazy difficult with an average (or above average) quarterback, and it’s completely impossible with an average (above average) quarterback who falls apart in the most important pressure-filled moments.
So here we are. The game date, the scoring play for the win, and the “IT20” shows the play that got us in the red zone and the plays of forward progress that led to the scoring play (when applicable).
November 20th, 2014 - 9 yard pass.
IT20: 2 yard run. 4 yard run. 5 yard run.
September 20th, 2015 - 12 yard pass.
IT20: 14 yard pass.
November 29th, 2015 - 12 yard pass.
IT20: 19 yard pass.
December 13th, 2015 - 16 yard pass.
IT20: Muffed punt. Raiders recover.
December 24th, 2015 - 31 yard field goal.
September 11th, 2016 - 10 yard pass.
IT20: 5 yard run. 5 yard penalty. 3 yard pass.
October 2nd, 2016 - 23 yard pass.
October 30th, 2016 - 41 yard pass.
November 21st, 2016 - 35 yard pass.
November 27th, 2016 - 23 yard field goal.
December 4th, 2016 - 3 yard run.
IT20: Interception. 8 yard run. 5 yard run.
December 18th, 2016 - 44 yard field goal.
October 19th, 2017 - 2 yard pass.
IT20: 28 yard pass.
September 30th, 2018 - 29 yard field goal.
November 18th, 2018 - 35 yard field goal.
December 9th, 2018 - 6 yard pass.
IT20: 39 yard pass. 1 yard run.
October 6th, 2019 - 2 yard run.
IT20: 4 yard run. 16 yard pass.
November 3rd, 2019 - 9 yard pass.
IT20: 23 yard pass.
November 7th, 2019 - 18 yard run.
IT20: 9 yard pass.
September 13th, 2020 - 6 yard run.
IT20: 18 yard penalty. 8 yard pass. 3 yard run.
October 11th, 2020 - 2 yard run.
IT20: Interception.
November 1st, 2020 - 24 yard field goal.
December 6th, 2020 - 46 yard pass.
January 3rd, 2021 - 1 yard run.
IT20: 21 yard pass. 8 yard pass.
September 13th, 2021 - 31 yard pass.
September 26th, 2021 - 22 yard field goal.
November 25th, 2021 - 29 yard field goal.
December 20th, 2021 - 48 yard field goal.
January 2nd, 2022 - 33 yard field goal.
January 9th, 2022 - 47 yard field goal.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=CarrDe02
The defense and offensive line were already given the cold shoulder this year other than Chandler Jones. Tons of guys who could help but we could not afford them. We gave up a 1st and a 2nd to add another receiver instead of helping that way also.
By design.
It gets so much worse in '23 when Renfrow, Carr, Adams, Jones, Waller, and Crosby actually start making their contract dollars. This is our funny money year and we still couldn't field a reasonable offensive line and defense.
Give me a rook QB in '23 after Carr's next expected playoff choke and 30 million in the defense. Imagine a rookie with these weapons, it would be hard to not look top 15 in a year. Ziegler knows this, he knows next year should be deep at QB, and hopefully he can act on it. We need our Joe Cool and unless Carr transforms 'who he is', he ain't it.
As far as pressure I think he's above average there leading the team to late drives and winning games.
As for the big NFL games he's been in 1, the Cincinnati game last year unless we add the Chargers game to end the year.
As for that wild card game I feel he did enough to win it. That game was lost in so many ways but agree Carr failed to deliver 1 last time with Waller open outside to tie it.
Missing on years of draft picks doesn't fall on Derek. Some 1st rounders were so bad they couldn't find roles as backups. That or they were miss coached or the change in coaching lead in another direction and in the type of personal needed to run yet another new system. But yes the team needs to draft players who rank at their respective draft spot. So many reaches leading to failure.
Hard to overcome that in the W/L column because you then need to spend 140M on players like Davante.
So far the moves made by the new regime has me somewhat confident. Aside from our new HC being a so called great offensive mind he's been around winning organizations long enough to understand the role a defense plays in victorys. And yes sometimes the defense needs to pull their weight. In my opinion the defense, over these past 8 years hasn't held up their part of the bargain a astounding 80% of the time. I fear teams with great defenses and the Raiders are so far from that.
FF to today and the new regime drafted 2 defensive tackles and added a 3 down DE in Chandler. Most moves this off season was on defense and has me somewhat hopeful. We currently have imo the best DC in 8 years. I also think he'll be heading out for a HC gig next year so it'll be another change in defensive philosophy yet again. Set back
The oline doesn't need to be elite they just need to be solid and play mistake free. Carr has a quick release and we have recievers the can separate in 2 seconds. Spending upwards of 50M on interior offensive linemen was a big mistake but maybe Carr needed the time bc we didn't exactly have above average quality WRs over that time. Yes?
Hopefully McDaniels will incorporate more screen passes keeping defensive linemen honest. Something I saw less than 5% of the time under Gruden. I've witnessed NE run the screen 5x per game where we ran it 5x per year. Stunningly ridiculous.
Personally I feel if a team wants to be a powerhouse in the NFL all these things come into play and must be addressed and hopefully McDaniels will have the time to implement them. Constant coaching changes equals no leadership and without leadership the team is doomed and thats what we've had.
I went over alot and ran on but it ALL plays a vital part at success or failure.
No heavy criticism of Carr if that's what you're looking for but I believe in the relationship between cause and effect. Something thats not talked about.
Any and all of the clearly stated obvious data with red zone efficiency, allocation of salary cap, “game winning drives” only finds itself in a blind spot with you. Enjoy your Carr-flavored Kool-Aid.
You start off trying to get another discussion going about 2016 vs 2017 and then abandon that to go into your rant about coaching changes and of course the ever present defense discussion in the QB thread.
here, let me help you out: QB last play of the season, discuss. Or how about, QB play as the season progresses, discuss. I know, those topics suck so you can get a pass and discuss the defense in the QB thread. After all, it was you who brought up QB wins which started this latest discussion
Thats all bud
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Re: The QB discussion version of Groundhog Day (formerly ABC thread)
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Raidernation1979
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First year in the system. New Coaches. Needs time to gel with new players. Receivers suck. O line sucks. Refs hate us.Attyla wrote Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:39 am:I admit I am surprised they did not go after yet another wide receiver during the off season. Renfrow and Adams along with Waller is a tough combo to cover but imagine if they had added say, a Jarvis Landry?
But even with just the three it will be a crime against nature if Carr does not have a record setting year. Even his most ardent detractors will have to admit this group of weapons may be the best in the league especially if Jacobs can stay healthy and be productive.
If and most likely when Carr plays like average Carr and we score 17 points a game for a stretch these and more will all be paraded as to why it isn’t Carrs fault
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GoodTimeCharlie
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Despite the occasional drop from the fanatic side of fandom in this thread. Those of us that have long ago torn the scales from our eyes have done a commendable job is identifying the truth apparent in our team.Opoponax50 wrote Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:55 am:Carr would be perfect for a defense-first team.
SF is the perfect example of a team that was successful going against the grain of the current NFL: great defense, stout running game, and a QB whose primary job was to not fuck things up, but who was also capable of making plays just often enough to win games. JG was just another part of the offense rather than the primary component.
It's obvious this current coaching staff is looking to win games with Carr this season, but if they continue to think that way they'll be making the same mistake that every coaching staff has made since Carr's been here.
If we had continued to balance the money used on both sides of the ball, we would have found ourselves where the 49’ers are, where the Chiefs and Rams were, and where the Vikings will be.
We have the same thing in Carr as a Garoppolo, a Smith, a Goff, and a Cousins. If around them you build a strong team, and don’t rely on them as “foundation” pieces, you may find yourself in the playoffs, and in the case of the 9’ers with JG on a hot streak, even a Super Bowl.
Though that is a house of cards. Eventually you’ll need to finally upgrade the quarterback position in order to push the team into the realm of constant championship contender.
And that’s about as kind a word as I can give Carr. We didn’t need to draft his replacement this year cause the team isn’t ready, and the draft didn’t make it a wise move anyway. Next year though…
We know what we have. We know what needs to be done. I’m hoping (more than knowing), that we finally have an astute front office that can get us there.
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KillerRaider30
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All very true Charlie. My thoughts have always been how do we know the Raiders couldn't be a contender year in and year out with Carr if we had built any resemblance of a full team around him.GoodTimeCharlie wrote Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:40 pm:Despite the occasional drop from the fanatic side of fandom in this thread. Those of us that have long ago torn the scales from our eyes have done a commendable job is identifying the truth apparent in our team.
If we had continued to balance the money used on both sides of the ball, we would have found ourselves where the 49’ers are, where the Chiefs and Rams were, and where the Vikings will be.
We have the same thing in Carr as a Garoppolo, a Smith, a Goff, and a Cousins. If around them you build a strong team, and don’t rely on them as “foundation” pieces, you may find yourself in the playoffs, and in the case of the 9’ers with JG on a hot streak, even a Super Bowl.
Though that is a house of cards. Eventually you’ll need to finally upgrade the quarterback position in order to push the team into the realm of constant championship contender.
And that’s about as kind a word as I can give Carr. We didn’t need to draft his replacement this year cause the team isn’t ready, and the draft didn’t make it a wise move anyway. Next year though…
We know what we have. We know what needs to be done. I’m hoping (more than knowing), that we finally have an astute front office that can get us there.
Replys have been Carr needs a entire supporting cast around him to succeed.
Well yea, thats what playoff teams have.
I personally feel Derek has the skills to drive the offense. Hes accomplished it with far less talent especially on the outside though it hasn't resulted in wins.
If and I mean IF the team wants to be respected and feared then they must have a defense worthy of instilling it.
Only then will we be placed among the teams at the top.
How I've viewed the Raiders thes last 8 years is this, good to pretty good offense but nooo defense.
Teams who play the Raiders probably feel the same way.
Aaah they have no defense we have a very good chance at beating them.
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sooperkool
Numbers don't have agendas
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I agree with you and expect our QB to deliver 30+ TDsAttyla wrote Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:39 am:I admit I am surprised they did not go after yet another wide receiver during the off season. Renfrow and Adams along with Waller is a tough combo to cover but imagine if they had added say, a Jarvis Landry?
But even with just the three it will be a crime against nature if Carr does not have a record setting year. Even his most ardent detractors will have to admit this group of weapons may be the best in the league especially if Jacobs can stay healthy and be productive.
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GoodTimeCharlie
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I believe wholeheartedly and without reservation that doing it with Carr as our quarterback, while abiding to a salary cap, is nigh impossible.KillerRaider30 wrote Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:22 pm:All very true Charlie. My thoughts have always been how do we know the Raiders couldn't be a contender year in and year out with Carr if we had built any resemblance of a full team around him.
Replys have been Carr needs a entire supporting cast around him to succeed.
Well yea, thats what playoff teams have.
I personally feel Derek has the skills to drive the offense. Hes accomplished it with far less talent especially on the outside though it hasn't resulted in wins.
If and I mean IF the team wants to be respected and feared then they must have a defense worthy of instilling it.
Only then will we be placed among the teams at the top.
How I've viewed the Raiders thes last 8 years is this, good to pretty good offense but nooo defense.
Teams who play the Raiders probably feel the same way.
Aaah they have no defense we have a very good chance at beating them.
There simply isn’t enough money that we are allowed to spend that can counteract the flaws with Carr’s ability in pressure situations. We can’t afford both an All Pro offensive line, upper tier receivers/tight ends/running backs, AND spend the necessary funds to acquire a Defense that’s at least in the upper-half of the NFL.
The one tiny shot would be to have the type of draft/free agency that people talk about years later. For instance the draft and free agency that Seattle had to create the “Legion of Boom”. What they accomplished was even more difficult to pull off than drafting an “elite” quarterback. They nailed the draft picks AND nailed the free agent acquisitions.
As much as Carr supporters like him and believe in him, he “is who he is”. He has had one single year with a top ten red-zone efficiency. He has exactly the same difficulties with pressure that he was labeled with coming out of college. That means counting his college years, that’s 12 years where nearly every year he’s played organized football he’s had a problem with pressure. The one decent year was 2016 when we had an offensive line being discussed with the Cowboys as the best offensive line in the NFL, and we actually spent more on our defense than our offense. Problem was, folks need to get paid, and alas, salary cap. We couldn’t hold it all together under the salary cap, and Carr’s injury brought back his biggest flaw stronger than ever before. Taking him from 7th in red zone efficiency in 2016, to 28th the very next year.
It’s hard enough to get to the Super Bowl with an “elite” quarterback, it’s crazy difficult with an average (or above average) quarterback, and it’s completely impossible with an average (above average) quarterback who falls apart in the most important pressure-filled moments.
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GoodTimeCharlie
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What goes into a “Game Winning Drive”? Especially when at the outset it seems to conflict so strongly with a quarterback who (except 2016) rates so poorly in red zone efficiency.
So here we are. The game date, the scoring play for the win, and the “IT20” shows the play that got us in the red zone and the plays of forward progress that led to the scoring play (when applicable).
November 20th, 2014 - 9 yard pass.
IT20: 2 yard run. 4 yard run. 5 yard run.
September 20th, 2015 - 12 yard pass.
IT20: 14 yard pass.
November 29th, 2015 - 12 yard pass.
IT20: 19 yard pass.
December 13th, 2015 - 16 yard pass.
IT20: Muffed punt. Raiders recover.
December 24th, 2015 - 31 yard field goal.
September 11th, 2016 - 10 yard pass.
IT20: 5 yard run. 5 yard penalty. 3 yard pass.
October 2nd, 2016 - 23 yard pass.
October 30th, 2016 - 41 yard pass.
November 21st, 2016 - 35 yard pass.
November 27th, 2016 - 23 yard field goal.
December 4th, 2016 - 3 yard run.
IT20: Interception. 8 yard run. 5 yard run.
December 18th, 2016 - 44 yard field goal.
October 19th, 2017 - 2 yard pass.
IT20: 28 yard pass.
September 30th, 2018 - 29 yard field goal.
November 18th, 2018 - 35 yard field goal.
December 9th, 2018 - 6 yard pass.
IT20: 39 yard pass. 1 yard run.
October 6th, 2019 - 2 yard run.
IT20: 4 yard run. 16 yard pass.
November 3rd, 2019 - 9 yard pass.
IT20: 23 yard pass.
November 7th, 2019 - 18 yard run.
IT20: 9 yard pass.
September 13th, 2020 - 6 yard run.
IT20: 18 yard penalty. 8 yard pass. 3 yard run.
October 11th, 2020 - 2 yard run.
IT20: Interception.
November 1st, 2020 - 24 yard field goal.
December 6th, 2020 - 46 yard pass.
January 3rd, 2021 - 1 yard run.
IT20: 21 yard pass. 8 yard pass.
September 13th, 2021 - 31 yard pass.
September 26th, 2021 - 22 yard field goal.
November 25th, 2021 - 29 yard field goal.
December 20th, 2021 - 48 yard field goal.
January 2nd, 2022 - 33 yard field goal.
January 9th, 2022 - 47 yard field goal.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=CarrDe02
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Jeremyturner1976
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That moment when reality hits like a brick. Great post and I completely agree.GoodTimeCharlie wrote Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:44 pm:I believe wholeheartedly and without reservation that doing it with Carr as our quarterback, while abiding to a salary cap, is nigh impossible.
There simply isn’t enough money that we are allowed to spend that can counteract the flaws with Carr’s ability in pressure situations. We can’t afford both an All Pro offensive line, upper tier receivers/tight ends/running backs, AND spend the necessary funds to acquire a Defense that’s at least in the upper-half of the NFL.
The one tiny shot would be to have the type of draft/free agency that people talk about years later. For instance the draft and free agency that Seattle had to create the “Legion of Boom”. What they accomplished was even more difficult to pull off than drafting an “elite” quarterback. They nailed the draft picks AND nailed the free agent acquisitions.
As much as Carr supporters like him and believe in him, he “is who he is”. He has had one single year with a top ten red-zone efficiency. He has exactly the same difficulties with pressure that he was labeled with coming out of college. That means counting his college years, that’s 12 years where nearly every year he’s played organized football he’s had a problem with pressure. The one decent year was 2016 when we had an offensive line being discussed with the Cowboys as the best offensive line in the NFL, and we actually spent more on our defense than our offense. Problem was, folks need to get paid, and alas, salary cap. We couldn’t hold it all together under the salary cap, and Carr’s injury brought back his biggest flaw stronger than ever before. Taking him from 7th in red zone efficiency in 2016, to 28th the very next year.
It’s hard enough to get to the Super Bowl with an “elite” quarterback, it’s crazy difficult with an average (or above average) quarterback, and it’s completely impossible with an average (above average) quarterback who falls apart in the most important pressure-filled moments.
The defense and offensive line were already given the cold shoulder this year other than Chandler Jones. Tons of guys who could help but we could not afford them. We gave up a 1st and a 2nd to add another receiver instead of helping that way also.
By design.
It gets so much worse in '23 when Renfrow, Carr, Adams, Jones, Waller, and Crosby actually start making their contract dollars. This is our funny money year and we still couldn't field a reasonable offensive line and defense.
Give me a rook QB in '23 after Carr's next expected playoff choke and 30 million in the defense. Imagine a rookie with these weapons, it would be hard to not look top 15 in a year. Ziegler knows this, he knows next year should be deep at QB, and hopefully he can act on it. We need our Joe Cool and unless Carr transforms 'who he is', he ain't it.
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KillerRaider30
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We should examine 2016 and 2017 to look at what happened. It may be an interesting convo.GoodTimeCharlie wrote Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:44 pm:I believe wholeheartedly and without reservation that doing it with Carr as our quarterback, while abiding to a salary cap, is nigh impossible.
There simply isn’t enough money that we are allowed to spend that can counteract the flaws with Carr’s ability in pressure situations. We can’t afford both an All Pro offensive line, upper tier receivers/tight ends/running backs, AND spend the necessary funds to acquire a Defense that’s at least in the upper-half of the NFL.
The one tiny shot would be to have the type of draft/free agency that people talk about years later. For instance the draft and free agency that Seattle had to create the “Legion of Boom”. What they accomplished was even more difficult to pull off than drafting an “elite” quarterback. They nailed the draft picks AND nailed the free agent acquisitions.
As much as Carr supporters like him and believe in him, he “is who he is”. He has had one single year with a top ten red-zone efficiency. He has exactly the same difficulties with pressure that he was labeled with coming out of college. That means counting his college years, that’s 12 years where nearly every year he’s played organized football he’s had a problem with pressure. The one decent year was 2016 when we had an offensive line being discussed with the Cowboys as the best offensive line in the NFL, and we actually spent more on our defense than our offense. Problem was, folks need to get paid, and alas, salary cap. We couldn’t hold it all together under the salary cap, and Carr’s injury brought back his biggest flaw stronger than ever before. Taking him from 7th in red zone efficiency in 2016, to 28th the very next year.
It’s hard enough to get to the Super Bowl with an “elite” quarterback, it’s crazy difficult with an average (or above average) quarterback, and it’s completely impossible with an average (above average) quarterback who falls apart in the most important pressure-filled moments.
As far as pressure I think he's above average there leading the team to late drives and winning games.
As for the big NFL games he's been in 1, the Cincinnati game last year unless we add the Chargers game to end the year.
As for that wild card game I feel he did enough to win it. That game was lost in so many ways but agree Carr failed to deliver 1 last time with Waller open outside to tie it.
Missing on years of draft picks doesn't fall on Derek. Some 1st rounders were so bad they couldn't find roles as backups. That or they were miss coached or the change in coaching lead in another direction and in the type of personal needed to run yet another new system. But yes the team needs to draft players who rank at their respective draft spot. So many reaches leading to failure.
Hard to overcome that in the W/L column because you then need to spend 140M on players like Davante.
So far the moves made by the new regime has me somewhat confident. Aside from our new HC being a so called great offensive mind he's been around winning organizations long enough to understand the role a defense plays in victorys. And yes sometimes the defense needs to pull their weight. In my opinion the defense, over these past 8 years hasn't held up their part of the bargain a astounding 80% of the time. I fear teams with great defenses and the Raiders are so far from that.
FF to today and the new regime drafted 2 defensive tackles and added a 3 down DE in Chandler. Most moves this off season was on defense and has me somewhat hopeful. We currently have imo the best DC in 8 years. I also think he'll be heading out for a HC gig next year so it'll be another change in defensive philosophy yet again. Set back
The oline doesn't need to be elite they just need to be solid and play mistake free. Carr has a quick release and we have recievers the can separate in 2 seconds. Spending upwards of 50M on interior offensive linemen was a big mistake but maybe Carr needed the time bc we didn't exactly have above average quality WRs over that time. Yes?
Hopefully McDaniels will incorporate more screen passes keeping defensive linemen honest. Something I saw less than 5% of the time under Gruden. I've witnessed NE run the screen 5x per game where we ran it 5x per year. Stunningly ridiculous.
Personally I feel if a team wants to be a powerhouse in the NFL all these things come into play and must be addressed and hopefully McDaniels will have the time to implement them. Constant coaching changes equals no leadership and without leadership the team is doomed and thats what we've had.
I went over alot and ran on but it ALL plays a vital part at success or failure.
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Attyla
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KillerRaider30
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Not trueAttyla wrote Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:42 am:interesting, an entire post in the QB thread and what is absent is any kind of accountability of the QB.
No heavy criticism of Carr if that's what you're looking for but I believe in the relationship between cause and effect. Something thats not talked about.
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GoodTimeCharlie
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At this point you are being willfully obtuse. I’ll redo the “game winning drives” and add in the mountain of incomplete passes, but if you can’t even see the silliness in something like Carr being credited with a “game winning drive” when the winning score is made by a 48 yard field goal, then this isn’t a conversation.KillerRaider30 wrote Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:44 am:Not true
No heavy criticism of Carr if that's what you're looking for but I believe in the relationship between cause and effect. Something thats not talked about.
Any and all of the clearly stated obvious data with red zone efficiency, allocation of salary cap, “game winning drives” only finds itself in a blind spot with you. Enjoy your Carr-flavored Kool-Aid.
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Attyla
I Don't Believe In No Win Scenarios-James Tiberius Kirk
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actually it was very true. Show me in your post where you add in anything even close to accountability for the QB.KillerRaider30 wrote Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:44 am:Not true
No heavy criticism of Carr if that's what you're looking for but I believe in the relationship between cause and effect. Something thats not talked about.
You start off trying to get another discussion going about 2016 vs 2017 and then abandon that to go into your rant about coaching changes and of course the ever present defense discussion in the QB thread.
here, let me help you out: QB last play of the season, discuss. Or how about, QB play as the season progresses, discuss. I know, those topics suck so you can get a pass and discuss the defense in the QB thread. After all, it was you who brought up QB wins which started this latest discussion
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KillerRaider30
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KillerRaider30
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I only brought up game winning drives to show Derek has some qualities in pressure situations. YesGoodTimeCharlie wrote Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:40 am:At this point you are being willfully obtuse. I’ll redo the “game winning drives” and add in the mountain of incomplete passes, but if you can’t even see the silliness in something like Carr being credited with a “game winning drive” when the winning score is made by a 48 yard field goal, then this isn’t a conversation.
Any and all of the clearly stated obvious data with red zone efficiency, allocation of salary cap, “game winning drives” only finds itself in a blind spot with you. Enjoy your Carr-flavored Kool-Aid.
Thats all bud
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Attyla
I Don't Believe In No Win Scenarios-James Tiberius Kirk
Posts: 41,571
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