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  trdaddy » Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:49 am

At least Art Shell has an excuse. He was out of coaching forever and day -and had less offensive talent.

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  Attyla » Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:55 am

Not even close. Shell was still a coach after he left the Raiders. His gap was 6 years. During that time he was working for the NFL so he was never away from the game. And I watched those games, even attended some. As bad as it is around here, Shell Redub was horrible. Again, not even close.

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  trdaddy » Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:01 am

Attyla wrote Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:55 am:Not even close. Shell was still a coach after he left the Raiders. His gap was 6 years. During that time he was working for the NFL so he was never away from the game. And I watched those games, even attended some. As bad as it is around here, Shell Redub was horrible. Again, not even close.

That's right. I was thinking of the BandB guy.

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  Sir Raider Duck, OMS » Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:38 am

Attyla wrote Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:55 am:Not even close. Shell was still a coach after he left the Raiders. His gap was 6 years. During that time he was working for the NFL so he was never away from the game. And I watched those games, even attended some. As bad as it is around here, Shell Redub was horrible. Again, not even close.

One of the reasons Kiffin was so popular was because under him, we actually looked and played like a legitimate NFL team with a modern offense.

We weren't a particularly good NFL team, mind you, but we at least weren't the total joke we'd been under Shell 2.0.

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  Attyla » Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:46 am

Sir Raider Duck, OMS wrote Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:38 am:One of the reasons Kiffin was so popular was because under him, we actually looked and played like a legitimate NFL team with a modern offense.

We weren't a particularly good NFL team, mind you, but we at least weren't the total joke we'd been under Shell 2.0.

Yea, watched Kiffin's games with special interest. Was at one as well. The real difference was not so much the players but the offense which played a lot more crisp and yes a modern offense. His defense was not what you would call very good but it was a bit more disciplined if I remember correctly. He has grown up a bit it seems and has regained a bit of what he lost while at TN and USC.

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  Attyla » Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:57 am

Jeevo wrote Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:49 am:Kiffin reminds me a lot of Harbaugh, college Harbaugh, as far as coaching personality goes. They're kind of brash, arrogant dicks but players like them, and that seems to be exactly what McD is missing.

Good comparison.

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  Willmark » Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:44 am

I don’t know, the Bed and Breakfast 2006 team that went 2–14? They might have been worse that the 0-16 Lions and 0-16 Browns teams…

Obviously by record they weren’t but I’m not talking about their records solely.

I think if you put those teams up against the 2006 Raiders, the Raiders lose.

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  Sir Raider Duck, OMS » Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:49 am

Attyla wrote Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:46 am:His defense was not what you would call very good but it was a bit more disciplined if I remember correctly.

Remember that Kiffin's defensive coordinator was Rob Ryan, who'd already been here a few years. They didn't get along, and part of what alienated Kiffin from Al was Kiffin wanting to replace Rob with his father (longtime NFL defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin). Supposedly, Kiffin fired Rob, Rob went to Al to thank him for the opportunity and say Goodbye, and Al basically said "He doesn't have the power to fire you. Get back to work." Kiffin then charged into Al's office demanding to fire Ryan, and Al's response was to type up a quarter-page resignation letter (specifically saying the Raiders didn't owe him the balance of his contract but wouldn't block his employment anywhere else) and hand it to Kiffin to sign. Kiffin refused, but spent 2008 trying to get himself fired (so he'd be paid the rest of his contract), while Al just wanted him to quit (so he wouldn't have to pay). I remember Jerry McDonald commenting that both men had acted so childishly that one wished neither of them would get his way.

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  Attyla » Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:24 am

Sir Raider Duck, OMS wrote Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:49 am:Remember that Kiffin's defensive coordinator was Rob Ryan, who'd already been here a few years. They didn't get along, and part of what alienated Kiffin from Al was Kiffin wanting to replace Rob with his father (longtime NFL defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin). Supposedly, Kiffin fired Rob, Rob went to Al to thank him for the opportunity and say Goodbye, and Al basically said "He doesn't have the power to fire you. Get back to work." Kiffin then charged into Al's office demanding to fire Ryan, and Al's response was to type up a quarter-page resignation letter (specifically saying the Raiders didn't owe him the balance of his contract but wouldn't block his employment anywhere else) and hand it to Kiffin to sign. Kiffin refused, but spent 2008 trying to get himself fired (so he'd be paid the rest of his contract), while Al just wanted him to quit (so he wouldn't have to pay). I remember Jerry McDonald commenting that both men had acted so childishly that one wished neither of them would get his way.

Yea, and there are questions about the validity of this, since the Raiders denied this and Kiffin has refused to comment on it. I think there is more than a nugget of truth here but I think we will die never knowing the truth completely. A lot of stuff ends up being kept under wraps about those final years of Davis's life

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  heavyD » Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:41 am

Bold post but I doubt we ever see a Raiders team as bad as the 2006 team. That team averaged 10.5 ppg on offense. Think about how pathetic that is over a 16 game season.

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  GUYDON » Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:47 am

Shell 2 was so, so very bad. We were 32nd in the NFL in everyrhing and it wasnt even close.
It truly looked like the Raiders didnt belong in the NFL.
But, with that said, a couple more losses lile we are seeing and we wont be far behind.
Shell 2 felt desperate, and 2023 is starting to feel a lot like it.
When they get blown out by tie chargers thos week to be 1-3 with no relief in site, it will certainly imch closer to Shell 2

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  JTRaider » Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:35 am

heavyD wrote Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:41 am:Bold post but I doubt we ever see a Raiders team as bad as the 2006 team. That team averaged 10.5 ppg on offense. Think about how pathetic that is over a 16 game season.

Holy crap, 10.5 points is crazy man. Thanks for pointing that out.

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  Attyla » Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:42 am

JTRaider wrote Wed Sep 27, 2023 11:35 am:Holy crap, 10.5 points is crazy man. Thanks for pointing that out.

And I paid money to see that mess....more than once