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Besides if worse came to worse Raiders could cut Adams post June 1st next year and recoup 36mil.
We are in a really good spot cap wise right now.
Adams has built some chemistry with AO12 (as has the other WRs) and think it wise to keep that room intact while much of what is around them changes.
Maybe they think they are an 11 win team and part of that is because of Adams.
Maybe they don't want to jack up team chemistry and trade a future hall of famer for no real return.
Maybe they already have a plan moving forward, like seeing if Tucker can be a #1 before creating hole they don't need to.
Whatever it is they must believe the Raiders are better with Adams than without him.
There are no cap issues here and I dont see any for the next few years.
I just don't see a valid reason to trade away one of the best players in the league, just to have some cap room when you already have so much cap you are carrying a large chunk over to next year .
PS: We are not trading him, nor should we, comments above explain why.
And I dont really get this downplaying of the importance of cap space. This is a cap driven league and how you manage the cap
determines the talent you can have. Firstly, there is no cap space that is being carried forward to 2026. Cap space carried forward is not determined until the day after the final game of the season. FA is still ongoing and the trade deadline isnt until late October. We might not be carrying anything forward, and if we do, that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. The valid reason for creating cap room, when there isnt an immediate need for cap room, is that you can use that cap room to acquire a player in a position of need -- CB for instance--who is younger; more likely to be of impact; and is likely going to still be here when the build is complete. This is the true and tested way of building a winner. Out with the old and expensive when they are still good enough to have trade-in value, and in with the young and cheap and good with plenty of room to improve that you control for years.
This basically comes down to how you see the next 1-2 seasons. I get that you feel this is potentially a 10-11 win playoff team and you dont want to sabotage that by trading Adams. I dont see us competing for a playoff spot this year or next. Im in line with the projected over under of 6-7 wins. I dont think the uncertainty in that is going to be 3-4 wins to get into the playoffs. So its a choice.
We can keep Adams; finish 7-10; cry because we didnt make the playoffs; get the 8th pick in the 2025 draft; package that up with 2 more 1st round picks in 2026 and 2027 to move up and draft a qb. Or we could have traded Adams for a 2nd round pick and drafted Ladd McConkey; used the cap space to sign X Howard; finish 4-13; cry because we didnt make the playoffs; get the 3rd pick in the 2025 draft and use that to draft a qb. I'll take door number 2.
I have gone out on a limb and said the Raiders will have not a good defense, but an elite defense this year, despite our young corners.
The offense has enough fire power to get us through with even mediocre play at QB imo.
The potential weak spots I see are QB, Oline, and CB. Bit I don't feel like they are disasters at any spot.
I think this is a year to stay where we are and see where we are really at, and then decide the future from there.
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Re: Would you do this? Adams traded, Aiyuk traded.
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chucker
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RI RAIDER
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We got our young TE's. Its time to get our young WR for the future (after our QB).chucker wrote Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:32 am:Ayiuk will fetch more value in trade and will command a bigger contract (I think the max trade value for Adams is a 2). He might be a better long term WR because of age, but Adams is possibly better for us this year than Ayiuk. We could trade away draft value and use more cap to get less from that position this year. Keep Adams this year, and look to the draft for long term upgrades at the position with Adams getting older.
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GUYDON
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Who knows tucker could be that guy. All reports are he looks extremely impressive so far.RI RAIDER wrote Tue Jun 25, 2024 5:58 am:We got our young TE's. Its time to get our young WR for the future (after our QB).
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Cruisin with Tooz
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Using up 44 million in cap space for 1300 receiving yards would be a misallocation of resources. I think the Raider's intention was to void out the contract after the 3rd year when it was inked.Attyla wrote Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:57 am:and yet our cap is fine.
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GUYDON
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I'm sure the deal will be reworked so it makes sense . Adams is only the 6th highest paid WR for 2024. Jefferson gets 34 mil this year. The cap will rise next year and salaries will rise with it.Cruisin with Tooz wrote Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:19 am:Using up 44 million in cap space for 1300 receiving yards would be a misallocation of resources. I think the Raider's intention was to void out the contract after the 3rd year when it was inked.
Besides if worse came to worse Raiders could cut Adams post June 1st next year and recoup 36mil.
We are in a really good spot cap wise right now.
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Attyla
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even still our cap is fine. And we have no idea what to expect from Adams this season. 2023 was marred by a coaching change coupled with a QB change to a rookie 4th rounder. It was also coupled with an OC change and frankly it is rare for all three to happen. Using 2023 to argue pretty much anything would be the very definition of arguing the exception and not the rule. I do agree that the contract was structured so we could get out of it in 2025 by either a restructure or cutting/trading him but we are not there yet so we have no idea what the next 11 months are going to bring to the table to determine which options will be explored.Cruisin with Tooz wrote Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:19 am:Using up 44 million in cap space for 1300 receiving yards would be a misallocation of resources. I think the Raider's intention was to void out the contract after the 3rd year when it was inked.
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signal
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Adams has built some chemistry with AO12 (as has the other WRs) and think it wise to keep that room intact while much of what is around them changes.
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raiderboyron
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Add to that Adams does know a lot of the passing offense to help receivers along due to his time with the new OC.signal wrote Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:34 am:The Raiders have a new OC and are implementing a new offensive scheme and will be changing the predominant blocking scheme for the OL. A lot of change is occurring and do think while of course there is room to bring in the rooks (Bowers and JPJ), I do think it might be wise to hold onto some familiarity or continuity while ushering in all of these changes.
Adams has built some chemistry with AO12 (as has the other WRs) and think it wise to keep that room intact while much of what is around them changes.
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Im not really seeing how. After this season he has 2 years left with P5 salaries of 35 million per. These restructures dont decrease the amount of money on the deal. They almost always convert some of the salary to an immediate "roster" bonus and the P5 salary is reduced by an identical amount, so that the team can shift some cap expenditure for that player to subsequent years. They can do this because the bonus prorates. So how does this look for Adams? Give him a 20 million roster bonus and reduce his P5 by 20 million to 15 million for 2025? He still gets his 35 million for 2025,but half (10 million) of that roster bonus prorates to 2026. So instead of having cap hits of 44 million in 2025 and 2026, you have cap hits of 34 million in 2025 and 54 million in 2026. It just shuffles money creating some flexibility, which we probably dont need and just delays his release from 2025 to 2026. But you can create a whole lot more flexibility by just cutting him and replacing him in the draft. Given that this Raider team is projected to win 6.5 games, I was very surprised that TT didnt move him prior to the draft, while he still has trade value, because this was the last year that his contract had a low P5. A team acquiring him this year would have been taking on an attractive 3 year $86 million in cap expenditure (16, 35,35 in 2024-6). Trade him after this year and its a not so attractive 2-year $70 million.GUYDON wrote Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:27 am:I'm sure the deal will be reworked so it makes sense . Adams is only the 6th highest paid WR for 2024. Jefferson gets 34 mil this year. The cap will rise next year and salaries will rise with it.
Besides if worse came to worse Raiders could cut Adams post June 1st next year and recoup 36mil.
We are in a really good spot cap wise right now.
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GUYDON
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First, that assumes TT and the Raiders buy in to them being a 6.5 win team that was predicted.Cruisin with Tooz wrote Wed Jun 26, 2024 12:05 pm:Im not really seeing how. After this season he has 2 years left with P5 salaries of 35 million per. These restructures dont decrease the amount of money on the deal. They almost always convert some of the salary to an immediate "roster" bonus and the P5 salary is reduced by an identical amount, so that the team can shift some cap expenditure for that player to subsequent years. They can do this because the bonus prorates. So how does this look for Adams? Give him a 20 million roster bonus and reduce his P5 by 20 million to 15 million for 2025? He still gets his 35 million for 2025,but half (10 million) of that roster bonus prorates to 2026. So instead of having cap hits of 44 million in 2025 and 2026, you have cap hits of 34 million in 2025 and 54 million in 2026. It just shuffles money creating some flexibility, which we probably dont need and just delays his release from 2025 to 2026. But you can create a whole lot more flexibility by just cutting him and replacing him in the draft. Given that this Raider team is projected to win 6.5 games, I was very surprised that TT didnt move him prior to the draft, while he still has trade value, because this was the last year that his contract had a low P5. A team acquiring him this year would have been taking on an attractive 3 year $86 million in cap expenditure (16, 35,35 in 2024-6). Trade him after this year and its a not so attractive 2-year $70 million.
Maybe they think they are an 11 win team and part of that is because of Adams.
Maybe they don't want to jack up team chemistry and trade a future hall of famer for no real return.
Maybe they already have a plan moving forward, like seeing if Tucker can be a #1 before creating hole they don't need to.
Whatever it is they must believe the Raiders are better with Adams than without him.
There are no cap issues here and I dont see any for the next few years.
I just don't see a valid reason to trade away one of the best players in the league, just to have some cap room when you already have so much cap you are carrying a large chunk over to next year .
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Attyla
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restructuring the deal next year is not difficult at all. Cutting him after June 1st has some dead money but is easily absorbed. The most likely scenario is we trade him or extend him. I doubt we will cut a player like Adams and get nothing in return. This season, I do not see us dealing him and cutting him would really hurt the cap so that is likely not an option.GUYDON wrote Wed Jun 26, 2024 12:25 pm:First, that assumes TT and the Raiders buy in to them being a 6.5 win team that was predicted.
Maybe they think they are an 11 win team and part of that is because of Adams.
Maybe they don't want to jack up team chemistry and trade a future hall of famer for no real return.
Maybe they already have a plan moving forward, like seeing if Tucker can be a #1 before creating hole they don't need to.
Whatever it is they must believe the Raiders are better with Adams than without him.
There are no cap issues here and I dont see any for the next few years.
I just don't see a valid reason to trade away one of the best players in the league, just to have some cap room when you already have so much cap you are carrying a large chunk over to next year .
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raider_kin
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PS: We are not trading him, nor should we, comments above explain why.
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Cruisin with Tooz
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And I dont really get this downplaying of the importance of cap space. This is a cap driven league and how you manage the cap
determines the talent you can have. Firstly, there is no cap space that is being carried forward to 2026. Cap space carried forward is not determined until the day after the final game of the season. FA is still ongoing and the trade deadline isnt until late October. We might not be carrying anything forward, and if we do, that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. The valid reason for creating cap room, when there isnt an immediate need for cap room, is that you can use that cap room to acquire a player in a position of need -- CB for instance--who is younger; more likely to be of impact; and is likely going to still be here when the build is complete. This is the true and tested way of building a winner. Out with the old and expensive when they are still good enough to have trade-in value, and in with the young and cheap and good with plenty of room to improve that you control for years.
This basically comes down to how you see the next 1-2 seasons. I get that you feel this is potentially a 10-11 win playoff team and you dont want to sabotage that by trading Adams. I dont see us competing for a playoff spot this year or next. Im in line with the projected over under of 6-7 wins. I dont think the uncertainty in that is going to be 3-4 wins to get into the playoffs. So its a choice.
We can keep Adams; finish 7-10; cry because we didnt make the playoffs; get the 8th pick in the 2025 draft; package that up with 2 more 1st round picks in 2026 and 2027 to move up and draft a qb. Or we could have traded Adams for a 2nd round pick and drafted Ladd McConkey; used the cap space to sign X Howard; finish 4-13; cry because we didnt make the playoffs; get the 3rd pick in the 2025 draft and use that to draft a qb. I'll take door number 2.
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The team acquiring a player is responsible for all of the remaining P5 salaries and incentives(if any) or any bonuses not yet paid. They are not responsible for any signing or roster bonuses already paid. The player and the new team are of course free to negotiate and change the contract. When Diggs was traded to Houston, that was done. They cut 2 years from the 3 years remaining on the contract he signed with the Bills, and in exchange gave him more money for the new 1 year deal. In Adams case his remaining P5's are approx 16, 35 and 35 million for 2024-2026. He also has some incentive and workout bonuses for relative chump change. A team trading for him this year would be picking up 3-86. A team trading for him next year would pick up 2-70. Plus the incentives. Also, none of Adams salaries are guaranteed, so for the team trading for him, he can be cut without any deadcap hit. We get the deadcap because of the prior bonuses that we paid out were prorated over 5 years. This proration for us is around 8.85 million/year IIRC because he got a 19 mill signing bonus then and another 20 million roster bonus at some point. If we traded him now, our deadcap now would be around 27 million. A trade next year would be around 18 million.raider_kin wrote Wed Jun 26, 2024 1:44 pm:Question for the big brains here: I believe Adams has about 15 mil guaranteed after the conclusion of the 2024 season. If we trade him next off season, is the receiving team only responsible for that guaranteed 15 (or however much it is) or the whole enchilada, which is another what , 70 mil?
PS: We are not trading him, nor should we, comments above explain why.
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GUYDON
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I have gone out on a limb and said the Raiders will have not a good defense, but an elite defense this year, despite our young corners.
The offense has enough fire power to get us through with even mediocre play at QB imo.
The potential weak spots I see are QB, Oline, and CB. Bit I don't feel like they are disasters at any spot.
I think this is a year to stay where we are and see where we are really at, and then decide the future from there.
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