- Congrats: 2 These Raider Fans gave Raiderz4life high fives (total 2):
- GoodTimeCharlie • chucker
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rich72 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:37 am
The American team looks like they were all picked up at a city bus stop.srv5490 wrote Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:29 am:If we ever sign the QB from the Mexican women's flag football team, I will be taking QB stanning to a level never seen on this board before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdcM6ED23k4
Raiderz4life » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:13 am
Out of all the players the raiders have ever had Derek Carr is sure 1 of them.Attyla » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:57 am
I will say this, and I am certainly not pointing specific fingers at anyone....but I do think there is a small group of people who hope the team fails so there is a stronger case to get rid of Carr. I am as critical as the next person when Carr does not measure up, but I am one who hopes for a win every week. Even during the dark dark days of Shell 2.0 I went into each game hoping for a win, but knowing it was futile. I do not think each game is futile with this squad. Carr's best season in 2016 we ran a similar offense. We did have a better line but the offense itself is similar if I am reading things correctly. I will certainly never question a fan's loyalty but hoping for a losing record to shed the team of a player? Utterly foreign to me.Raidernation1979 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:41 am
I would say that is a tiny faction. I used to be a big Carr supporter. He lost me in 2018. I still root strongly for a win every week. It’s just bizarre not knowing which Carr we will see once the game starts. Sometimes it’s elite Carr. Sometimes it’s horrible Carr. Others is average Carr.Attyla wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:57 am:I will say this, and I am certainly not pointing specific fingers at anyone....but I do think there is a small group of people who hope the team fails so there is a stronger case to get rid of Carr. I am as critical as the next person when Carr does not measure up, but I am one who hopes for a win every week. Even during the dark dark days of Shell 2.0 I went into each game hoping for a win, but knowing it was futile. I do not think each game is futile with this squad. Carr's best season in 2016 we ran a similar offense. We did have a better line but the offense itself is similar if I am reading things correctly. I will certainly never question a fan's loyalty but hoping for a losing record to shed the team of a player? Utterly foreign to me.
Attyla » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:42 am
oh I do not think it is a large number of guys, but that small group puzzles me with that stuff.Raidernation1979 wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:41 am:I would say that is a tiny faction. I used to be a big Carr supporter. He lost me in 2018. I still root strongly for a win every week. It’s just bizarre not knowing which Carr we will see once the game starts. Sometimes it’s elite Carr. Sometimes it’s horrible Carr. Others is average Carr.
raiders93 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:45 am
I don’t know if I’ve seen any “hope we lose” sentiment so as to be right about Carr. The closest thing I’ve seen is the “if we’re good it’s because anyone could win with this roster” line of argument. I have a hard time anyone is rooting against the team regardless of how they feel about Carr.Attyla wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:57 am:I will say this, and I am certainly not pointing specific fingers at anyone....but I do think there is a small group of people who hope the team fails so there is a stronger case to get rid of Carr. I am as critical as the next person when Carr does not measure up, but I am one who hopes for a win every week. Even during the dark dark days of Shell 2.0 I went into each game hoping for a win, but knowing it was futile. I do not think each game is futile with this squad. Carr's best season in 2016 we ran a similar offense. We did have a better line but the offense itself is similar if I am reading things correctly. I will certainly never question a fan's loyalty but hoping for a losing record to shed the team of a player? Utterly foreign to me.
srv5490 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:00 am
So, discussing weaknesses at the QB position is a "bad mark" on Raider fans, and those that do it are possibly not "real fans", but criticizing other players on the roster, and discussing how they are responsible for the lack of the QB's success is OK in that same context?r8rfanatic wrote Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:01 pm:This back and forth is all so dumb.
At his very best, Carr is a Top 5-10 guy. At worst, he's what, maybe Top 20?
We can all agree on that, as a baseline.
What I see happening everywhere is that there seem to be two main sides to this argument - on one side, you have the Carr "bashers" who say he hasn't won anything in the playoffs, he fumbles too much, his TD numbers are too low, and his W/L record is nowhere near the great Raider QBs of the past.
On the other side, you have the Carr "defenders" who say he has all the tools, the passing yardage, the ability to make all the throws, the leadership, and the clutch gene that you need to win in the NFL. The idea is that (in many ways like other greats in relatively recent Raider history, i.e. Charles Woodson, Tim Brown) the W/L record is a team stat, and the lack of a good team around him is what throws this number off.
What is so strange is that it's mostly older fans that seem to be anti-Carr. Even though they have lived through the likes of (off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm forgetting some real gems) "less than elite" QB's like Marc Wilson, Jay Schroeder, Steve Beuerline, Jeff George, Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks, Josh McCown, Daunte Culpepper, Bruce Gradkowski, JaMarcus Russell, etc., etc., etc.......
Carr is obviously a major upgrade on all of these guys who STARTED games for the Raiders. The prevalent thought is that despite that, there is a standard that they see as a one established by guys like Kenny Stabler, Jim Plunkett, Daryle Lamonica, and Rich Gannon - which is to JUST WIN.
I get all that.
But the reality is that no QB in the league could have won much more than Carr has in his 8 years here. Certainly not rings, not with what we've all seen what we've had here in that time, and not with 6 HC's/systems in 9 years. You can't ignore the fact that in those 8 years, no defense in the NFL has given up more points or had less recovered turnovers than the Raiders defense. That's not a "deep stat". That's not giving your entire offense a chance to win.
You can look at the other perceived flaws, like fumbling or not scoring enough in the red zone. Do you think that a legit WR1 like Davante Adams just might help with that? The closest thing to a true WR1 on the outside in his whole career has been Michael Crabtree, who never made the ProBowl once. Amari Cooper was sold out of Dallas recently, rumored in part for his tendency of mentally checking out of games, something fans noticed that he did here more than once. Was he that alpha dog WR1 that seemingly every other Top 10 QB has? No.
Point being - I see Carr's pairing with Adams as something similar to Tim Brown finally getting a legit QB in Rich Gannon two decades ago. We saw what happened there. Brown had been a top WR for years, but had little playoff success to show for it. So, maybe instead of trying to bash our QB or point out where he's not absolutely perfect in your eyes, maybe just enjoy the show that we're all about to witness as Raider fans.
This "civil war" is lame, a bad mark on all of us as fans. Attacking a signed franchise QB who refused to sit out the playoffs again last year, and was responsible for MOST of the Raider leadership that guided the ship while winning the last 4 games, and getting us to the playoffs, in the midst of Gruden's scandal, losing (TE1) Waller for almost half the season, Arnette making death threats with a rifle on social media, and (WR1) Ruggs' DUI homicide just doesn't make much sense, and at the very least is pointless. He's here. He's the guy, and that's a conclusion the new GM and HC made. So if we are going to root for the RAIDERS to win, it has to be accepted that he's the guy who's going to do it.
Otherwise, you are effectively rooting for the team to lose, just to prove that you were "right".
To me, that's the most damning violation. When the term "real fan" starts getting tossed around, it's hard to argue the accusation that any fan who isn't rooting for their TEAM to win doesn't really seem like a real fan. Because it doesn't, at least not to me.
Instead, why not enjoy it? Wouldn't you as a Raider fan rather WIN than be right?
But make no mistake - this is a big indicator year. He finally has what looks like a decent defense, he has an upgraded coaching staff on both sides of the ball. He has a Top 5 in the NFL starting TE and Top 5 in the NFL starting Slot receiver. Most of all, he has that WR1 that he HAS chemistry with, trusts, and who can make gamebreaking plays, up and down the field and in the endzone.
So - make your beliefs known NOW. Either you believe that Carr will get it done, or you don't. Practically, based on everything we've seen to this point, and everything we know on both sides of the argument, do you believe that he will now: A) take the Raiders to the playoffs in 2022 and win at least a game, AND B) Carr will win a SuperBowl as the Raiders' starting QB within the next 3-5 years.
That's the real debate.
Attyla » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:41 am
yea, that one I never understood either, some around here feel that saying that any other player is trash is completely acceptable but Carr is untouchable. never made sense.Willmark » Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:18 am
Hope for the best and expect the worse and you’ll never be disappointed.Opoponax50 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:29 am
I've only been a fan for 45 years. I don't think that qualifies me to state any opinion on this team.Willmark wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:29 am:And to add this place is amusing with. “You’re not a real fan if “.
Fairly certain each fan gets to fan in his own way.
Jeremyturner1976 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:32 am
I will miss the post game analysis. I am also with you on the bolded portion. I really hope we see a new version of Derek this year.Willmark wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:18 am:Hope for the best and expect the worse and you’ll never be disappointed.
As far Carr? I already avoid game day threads.
Also think I’ll avoid doing the post game analysis threads. Too much whining going on with correctly pointing out uncomfortable facts.
Basically this season (as of right now) I’m really in wait and see. And if we go 12-0 to start the season? I’m still waiting to see where we are in December and early January.
I’ll continue to root for the Raiders but I’m not drinking any Flavor Aide anytime soon, certainly not week 1.
GoodTimeCharlie » Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:18 pm
I honestly can’t imagine a Raider man would actually root for the failure of the team. If it was one of them new-age fair-weather fans that roots for more than one team, then perhaps, but not a Raider man.Attyla wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:57 am:I will say this, and I am certainly not pointing specific fingers at anyone....but I do think there is a small group of people who hope the team fails so there is a stronger case to get rid of Carr. I am as critical as the next person when Carr does not measure up, but I am one who hopes for a win every week. Even during the dark dark days of Shell 2.0 I went into each game hoping for a win, but knowing it was futile. I do not think each game is futile with this squad. Carr's best season in 2016 we ran a similar offense. We did have a better line but the offense itself is similar if I am reading things correctly. I will certainly never question a fan's loyalty but hoping for a losing record to shed the team of a player? Utterly foreign to me.
FACTS!!!Raiderz4life wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:13 am:Out of all the players the raiders have ever had Derek Carr is sure 1 of them.
rich72 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:16 pm
So many people forget Carson Palmer discussions, they were brutal on palmer.srv5490 wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:00 am:So, discussing weaknesses at the QB position is a "bad mark" on Raider fans, and those that do it are possibly not "real fans", but criticizing other players on the roster, and discussing how they are responsible for the lack of the QB's success is OK in that same context?
KillerRaider30 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:59 am
I remember those.rich72 wrote Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:16 pm:So many people forget Carson Palmer discussions, they were brutal on palmer.