- Congrats: 1 These Raider Fans gave Attyla a high five:
- Jeremyturner1976
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Attyla » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:59 am
this is the argument people use until his record is brought up and then it is a team sport.sooperkool wrote Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:25 pm:Twice in 8 years unless someone else got us there in 2016
Trainnvain » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:09 am
We have also been told repeatedly that the qb owns the team record. There are hundreds of posts supporting thisWillmark wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:38 am:Why would anyone bring up Carr’s record? We’ve been told repeatedly here on this forum that QB wins are not a thing.
raiders93 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:18 am
There’s objectively better QBs than Carr that have struggled to post a good record when they’ve been on bad teams. A QB like Carr has led us to the playoffs a couple times but he certainly hasn’t carried us there.Attyla wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:59 am:this is the argument people use until his record is brought up and then it is a team sport.
sooperkool » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:23 am
Oh I'm not taking the higher road or even inferring that I am. I also have never gotten into the "QB wins" debate because it is nebulous and pointless. In fact, scour my posts, I have never engaged in that discussion. I'm not even really engaging in this one...just pointing out that we went to the playoffs twice with Carr as QB.Attyla wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:00 am:so Carr leads the team to the playoffs but does not lead the team to his overall record and that is a circle jerk?
Let's not resort to the baser reactions of the masses. Let's not resort to the inconsistencies and run away implying you are taking the higher ground. It is simple. Either he took the team to the playoffs and he took the team to his overall record or both are the result of the team as a whole. Your implication of higher ground rings rather biased to the truth otherwise.
Raidernation1979 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:38 am
Is that a points ranking or yards? Also yes the defense is certainly a contributing to overall wins. The defense is not as much a contributing factor to offensive output. Chargers 4 spots away defensively ran on avg 2.3 plays per game than us. Yet Herbert demolished Carr in TD/Int and beat him in yardage and rating. Just a quick example. We aren’t losing 35-38. Most of our losses, especially this past year the offense was just bad. Fortunately later in the season the defense came I’ve to helpraiders93 wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:18 am:There’s objectively better QBs than Carr that have struggled to post a good record when they’ve been on bad teams. A QB like Carr has led us to the playoffs a couple times but he certainly hasn’t carried us there.
Looking at last season - even just examining the defences your top QBs had. If I take the average ranking between points allowed and turnovers as their overall ranking (below):
QB INDEX:
- Brady: defence - 5th
- Rodgers: defence - 11th
- Allen: defence - 2nd
- Herbert: defence - 24th
- stafford: defence - 13th
- burrow: defence - 17th
- mahomes: defence - 7th
- Murray: defence - 9th
- Prescott: defence - 4th
- Carr: defence - 28th
Point being that I generally don’t think it’s fair to give too much credit or blame to any QB for the team record. There’s exceptions where a great QB produces a good record with a shitty team or where a great team is held back by a shitty QB… but for the most part a team that wins isn’t being carried by a QB or carrying a QB.
signal » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:38 am
Point taken. But with the array of offensive weapons that the Raiders have at their disposal, the Offense better carry the team in 2022. Yes, the D needs to show up. But this team is built to score points, a lot of points. When you have three offensive weapons that are widely considered among the best...you better fucking put up some crooked numbers.raiders93 wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:18 am:There’s objectively better QBs than Carr that have struggled to post a good record when they’ve been on bad teams. A QB like Carr has led us to the playoffs a couple times but he certainly hasn’t carried us there.
Looking at last season - even just examining the defences your top QBs had. If I take the average ranking between points allowed and turnovers as their overall ranking (below):
QB INDEX:
- Brady: defence - 5th
- Rodgers: defence - 11th
- Allen: defence - 2nd
- Herbert: defence - 24th
- stafford: defence - 13th
- burrow: defence - 17th
- mahomes: defence - 7th
- Murray: defence - 9th
- Prescott: defence - 4th
- Carr: defence - 28th
Point being that I generally don’t think it’s fair to give too much credit or blame to any QB for the team record. There’s exceptions where a great QB produces a good record with a shitty team or where a great team is held back by a shitty QB… but for the most part a team that wins isn’t being carried by a QB or carrying a QB.
CWood24 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:44 am
We’re constantly reminded of HIS 4th quarter comebacks & game winning drives so are they a team stat or an individual statTrainnvain wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:09 am:We have also been told repeatedly that the qb owns the team record. There are hundreds of posts supporting this
Amish Cabal » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:11 pm
THAT game, Carr was our biggest weakness. There have been SEVERAL games, including 7 out of 8 games played at Arrowhead, Carr was our biggest weakness. Not every loss has been Carr's fault, however. Clear now?FlyBono24 wrote Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:11 pm:The poster I was arguing with LITERALLY just said the defense, and special teams, and other positions "did their job" or whatever he said, during the Bengals playoff game. So he was implying that Carr was to blame.
Then I gave him a bunch of instances where other players fucked up, and he's like "I didn't say Carr was 100% to blame"
Apparently some people on here need to take Logic 101 courses.
GoodTimeCharlie » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:22 pm
At the end of the day, it’s only a handful of us here on this thread in “Raiderforums” that are tired of Carr…26 docofdeath » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:28 pm
So now Chris Simms is an expert. I guess you don't have to be a great QB to critique one.Attyla wrote Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:21 pm:Chris Simms says Carr is the worst QB in the division. I am sure this has been discussed. But I was on vacation so I have to tear the bandaid off the cut
Raider727 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:41 pm
Derek Carr career stats week 9-17(63 total games):Jeremyturner1976 wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:31 am:He said 'took the team to the playoffs'. I count once, pre-paycheck.
Playoffs are decided weeks 8-16 and Carr was terrible in that stretch (A consistent theme for him given his same collapse in '17, '19, and '20), the defense however was top 5 in that stretch in ppg allowed. The team took him to the playoffs, not the other way around.
Lots of QBs get carried to playoffs, hell Bortles was carried to a championship game. Bortles did not take the Jags there. That is my point.
Raider727 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:43 pm
But it's the defenses faultRaider727 wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:41 pm:Derek Carr career stats week 9-17(63 total games):
82 touchdown passes
5 rushing touchdowns
45 interceptions
42 fumbles
20 fumbles lost
87 total touchdown passes
87 total interceptions/fumbles
65 total turnovers
22+ on touchdowns vs turnover rate in 63 total games
Carr doesn't even average half a touchdown in point differential a game in the second half of the season.
Kinda hard to make a push to get in the playoffs when the QB(the most important position in football) is inconsistent in the 2nd half of the season.
GoodTimeCharlie » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:45 pm
No dude, it’s the Refs…Raider727 wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:43 pm:But it's the defenses fault
CWood24 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:01 pm
Funny because people on here quote David all the time when he is praising his brother so i guess all his praise means nothing then26 docofdeath wrote Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:28 pm:So now Chris Simms is an expert. I guess you don't have to be a great QB to critique one.
Raiders Baby » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:09 pm
Short Rant: