signal » Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:29 am
My approach, is that if a QB falls in your lap at the draft, and you think he may be the best player available you ALWAYS take him.chucker wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:54 am:Draft a QB regardless - barring some highly unlikely run to the AFC Championship. That doesn't mean you're giving up on O'Connell, it just means you're giving yourself more opportunities at the most important position. We spent way too many years failing to address the possibility that a QB who "might be the guy" simply isn't the guy.
RI RAIDER » Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:46 am
This is the year to jump up and I think the Bears pick is the perfect spot (currently #4). If they drop out of the #4 spot, it may change things. Currently we are at 11 and I think we will be about where we were last season when its all said and done (so it will not cost and arm and a leg). At the 4 position, we are guaranteed one of the big 3 QB's (Williams, Maye, or Daniels) or Harrison. I do not think you can go wrong with any of them.signal » Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:03 am
You may be right.RI RAIDER wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:46 am:This is the year to jump up and I think the Bears pick is the perfect spot (currently #4). If they drop out of the #4 spot, it may change things. Currently we are at 11 and I think we will be about where we were last season when its all said and done (so it will not cost and arm and a leg). At the 4 position, we are guaranteed one of the big 3 QB's (Williams, Maye, or Daniels) or Harrison. I do not think you can go wrong with any of them.
Fade2SilverAndBlack » Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:06 am
Nothing. I have seen enough.....RI RAIDER » Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:10 am
Our sins of the past should not impact what we are doing now. If you do not step up to the plate, you are not getting a hit. Drafting a franchise QB and having him on a rookie contract is the salvation for any shit team (even ours). I think we should have a go big or go home mentality. I know QB's are a crap shoot, but on paper, this class could be a very good one.chucker » Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:16 am
Good post. I won't say we need to draft a QB in the first, but I will say we can't let some magical threshold that O'Connell may hit prevent us from drafting a QB in the first. You have to draft a QB somewhere though, unless you have a young elite guy on the roster, and a quality backup. Maybe if we'd drafted guys every year we'd have been on a different path long ago. And your first statement, that I bolded, is as true as it gets.signal wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:29 am:My approach, is that if a QB falls in your lap at the draft, and you think he may be the best player available you ALWAYS take him.
But the QB position is one that can be over drafted in the first round. At times, it has happened...while at other times it can be unusually under drafted.
I still remember when Rodgers was slated to go either first or second in the draft and he fell and fell and fell right into the Raiders lap and then we went CB. The fucking Packers who had Favre, who at the time was considered one of the best in the game, took him. Why? Because you never pass on QB that falls in your lap if you think he is the best player on the board...no matter what you have at the position. In short, given your evaluations of the players...pick the best damn talent and fuck need. It worked incredibly well for the Packers.
That said, I do think going into the draft desperate to address any one position can lead to a poor approach. It tends to muddy the water as to all other players available when you pick. In other words, evaluate players and pick accordingly and don't talk yourself into having to address a particular position in a particular round (especially the first round) because it can lead to either over reaching or a complete swing and miss.
I have no problem with the Raiders going QB in the first....IF the GM states afterwards, they were not simply going after 'a QB' but rather they were going after that specific player who just happened to play QB and believe him to be the best available player and that player who will impact the Raiders fortunes the most in a positive way moving forward.
But reaching in the draft to go after a predetermined specific position can lead to other teams raping you in trades or settling for a player who simply happens to play the position. In short, keep your approach player based and not position based.
And yes, I have been critical of past regimes not swinging and taking a QB. BUT, in those cases, it was if they were simply passing on the QB as if it did not fill a need which is stupid. IF the QB falls in your lap, and is considered the among the two or three best players available...YOU TAKE HIM. That said, to swing the pendulum completely to the other side and go in damned and determined and desperate to get a QB can lead to other problems.
heavyD » Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:24 pm
Somebody look up the last ten 1st round picks the Raiders have made and try and come up with a compelling case why they shouldn’t take a QB with their first pick. IMO they have nothing to lose really as they miss on almost all those picks anyway. May as well swing for the fences.JTRaider » Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:31 pm
His KC game was excellent. He started 10 of 11 in Miami, and I believe the same in this game. The ceiling is not as low imo as many think. His deep ball is deadly and he can hit the out routes.Coloradoraider » Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:21 pm
Is it fair to claim AOC is/has been the 2nd best rookie QB this year? Obviously, he's well behind Stroud, but who else? Richardson showed flashes but got hurt quickly. Young has been terrible. Levis has also flashed, but most of it came in his first, spectacular game. Since, he's been at AOC's level, if not below. Paegent has been bad. I guess Devito has been better the last week or so after his terrible start. Am I missing anyone?signal wrote Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:18 am:It should be noted that before this game was played, the Chiefs have given up an average of 170.8 yards a game through the air. Their secondary has been very stingy all year not allowing for much success through the air.
So, while AO4's 248 yards is rather pedestrian, it is a lot more than what the Chiefs usually give up. AO4 accomplished this with highly questionable play calling.
mranquales » Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:56 pm
You're one of the few posters on this site that actually understands. AOC is being put in the worst circumstances because of our OC and yet he's performing incredibly well.JTRaider wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:31 pm:His KC game was excellent. He started 10 of 11 in Miami, and I believe the same in this game. The ceiling is not as low imo as many think. His deep ball is deadly and he can hit the out routes.
The book is still being written but I liked what I saw, I do believe the runs on first and second so often made it a tough game (Thus the QBR where it considers down and distance).
Exactly. Raider fans are spoiled to not appreciate what AOC is doing. Considering the circumstances, he's playing excellent.Coloradoraider wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:21 pm:Is it fair to claim AOC is/has been the 2nd best rookie QB this year? Obviously, he's well behind Stroud, but who else? Richardson showed flashes but got hurt quickly. Young has been terrible. Levis has also flashed, but most of it came in his first, spectacular game. Since, he's been at AOC's level, if not below. Paegent has been bad. I guess Devito has been better the last week or so after his terrible start. Am I missing anyone?
GoodTimeCharlie » Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:04 pm
You say some stupid shit. Mostly stupid shit. But calling Raider fans spoiled has gotta be the stupidest shit I have ever seen written here.mranquales wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:56 pm:You're one of the few posters on this site that actually understands. AOC is being put in the worst circumstances because of our OC and yet he's performing incredibly well.
Exactly. Raider fans are spoiled to not appreciate what AOC is doing. Considering the circumstances, he's playing excellent.
signal » Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:06 pm
Much of that story needs to be written as JT said, but it would not surprise me one bit if AO4 turned out to be the second best QB drafted in 2022.Coloradoraider wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:21 pm:Is it fair to claim AOC is/has been the 2nd best rookie QB this year? Obviously, he's well behind Stroud, but who else? Richardson showed flashes but got hurt quickly. Young has been terrible. Levis has also flashed, but most of it came in his first, spectacular game. Since, he's been at AOC's level, if not below. Paegent has been bad. I guess Devito has been better the last week or so after his terrible start. Am I missing anyone?
Raider_Len » Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:03 pm
I think the real question becomes, is he mobile enough to succeed in today's NFL going forward, even as he improves else-ware.signal wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:06 pm:Much of that story needs to be written as JT said, but it would not surprise me one bit if AO4 turned out to be the second best QB drafted in 2022.
I think the remainder of the season may tell us more. He is very much a work in progress and I do get the sense that he is doing everything he can to improve.
rcraider » Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:18 pm
Our past history of drafting has been shit regardless of previous injury.AdamJoshua28 wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:53 am:Because we've had so much luck signing people with injuries hoping they come back 100% or at all. If it was a late round pickup cool but i don't know if i would go first or 2nd or mb even 3rd round depending what's on the board. Then again i'm not a GM or scout, just going by our past history of shitty signings.
Coach dd 11 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:04 pm
I would double down on that one as well and add that our OL sucks! He has also played a couple games without his top OL as well. I don't think any of this talk matters until we build a true OL and have a consistent solid running game for the QB.mranquales wrote Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:56 pm:You're one of the few posters on this site that actually understands. AOC is being put in the worst circumstances because of our OC and yet he's performing incredibly well.
Exactly. Raider fans are spoiled to not appreciate what AOC is doing. Considering the circumstances, he's playing excellent.