BoKnows81 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:07 am
All his takes are nonsensical. When will people learn that the past means NOTHING. This year is this year.Dark Horse wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:58 am: You all see what I mean? For some people there is no moving on.
RenoRaiders75 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:08 am
TBH I will be OK if we trade up or down or make the pick at 13, but I would rather trade back and get more picks if I had a choice, but if JD is there at 4 I think you have to get him somehow if you think he is the man.chucker » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:10 am
Also can be noted that Telesco did not trade up to get Herbert. And that several position players were drafted ahead of Herbert that year. Chase Young, Okudah and Andrew Thomas were drafted ahead of him - Young and Okudah have been disappointments for their draft positions, and Thomas was disappointing at first but has now rounded into a really good tackle.Raider727 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:59 am:Who's the best player Telesco has ever drafted? Is it not Herbert? The whole debate about the Raiders past draft picks have nothing to do with Telesco.
16 to 88 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:15 am
Obviously this is true. Anybody position can bust, including, you guessed it, quarterback. Ask the Steelers and 49ers about that one. And possibly, the panthers and colts. It really is easy enough, I fully expect we will draft a quarterback, been saying so since the last play of our season.JTRaider wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:03 am:Yes, there is absolutely this notion of 'As long as we don't pick a QB a 13, we immediately add a high quality starter elsewhere' in so many of these arguments.
That is absolutely a false belief.
The truth is, you can get a solid CB or OT in FA, however you can not get a high quality QB (Top 10) in FA. Draft accordingly.
16 to 88 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:16 am
Yes you are correct.BoKnows81 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:07 am:All his takes are nonsensical. When will people learn that the past means NOTHING. This year is this year.
Attyla » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:24 am
you took two sentences from a post about moving on and that was all you gleaned. We have been talking off and on about past results from many teams, why did you not point those out? One answer: it does not fit your narrative.Dark Horse wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:58 am: You all see what I mean? For some people there is no moving on.
BoKnows81 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:25 am
Then please explain to me why year in and year out, there are teams trading up for QBs. Why do you think that is? Do you think all these teams havent learned? How about the Chiefs? They went and got their guy. Bc the need for the QB position is far greater than any position in any sport. Is it a gamble? Yes. But so is standing pat and taking "your guy". I personally do not think Penix or Nix present any more upside than Minshew or Aidan. Thats how i feel THIS year about THESE QBs. What the Raiders did in fucking 2007 has no bearing on what they do in 2024.16 to 88 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:16 am:Yes you are correct.
History means nothing and you can't learn anything from it. Brilliant, simply... brilliant.
Attyla » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:36 am
Well, to be honest, it kind of does. Here me out before you start typing. You, yourself, state it is a gamble. You have to look at the history of trading up for a QB in the draft because the history does speak volumes. And the history of trading up quite often says the team that traded out of the top spot vastly improves their lie vs the team that trades up. That is the history. You mention the outlier in that Reid not only got his guy but at the time he took his guy a bunch of Raider fans panned the move and now they use it to make a case for moving up. Top QBs can be great, Manning shouts it from the mountain tops. They can be miserable. But the vast amount of times the team that trades up into the top spots does so to their detriment. And a ton of times when teams take a top QB standing pat, it is a mixed bag to say the least. And this comes from a guy who wanted one of the top three going back to last year when I advocated for waiting that extra year to get one of them. We were just shitty enough to be mediocre but not shitty enough to be truly shitty.BoKnows81 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:25 am:Then please explain to me why year in and year out, there are teams trading up for QBs. Why do you think that is? Do you think all these teams havent learned? How about the Chiefs? They went and got their guy. Bc the need for the QB position is far greater than any position in any sport. Is it a gamble? Yes. But so is standing pat and taking "your guy". I personally do not think Penix or Nix present any more upside than Minshew or Aidan. Thats how i feel THIS year about THESE QBs. What the Raiders did in fucking 2007 has no bearing on what they do in 2024.
16 to 88 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:41 am
You mean, from history? Imagine that. Some guy on here was pointing his out to you just a minute ago. Who was that guy?BoKnows81 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:25 am:Then please explain to me why year in and year out, there are teams trading up for QBs. Why do you think that is? Do you think all these teams havent learned?
BoKnows81 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:44 am
There are more variables when it comes to drafting or trading up for QBs. Development being one of the major aspects. Just as you say you will back any QB we draft, do you back this regime? Bc they will be the ones that are more than 50% responsible for whether the QB we draft will be successful. That is why history does not matter. There are too many variables. We are not the Patriots. We are not that far off. Oh, and we have a dynasty in our own backyard that a top defense will not stop in the playoffs. Ask the 49ers.Attyla wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:36 am:Well, to be honest, it kind of does. Here me out before you start typing. You, yourself, state it is a gamble. You have to look at the history of trading up for a QB in the draft because the history does speak volumes. And the history of trading up quite often says the team that traded out of the top spot vastly improves their lie vs the team that trades up. That is the history. You mention the outlier in that Reid not only got his guy but at the time he took his guy a bunch of Raider fans panned the move and now they use it to make a case for moving up. Top QBs can be great, Manning shouts it from the mountain tops. They can be miserable. But the vast amount of times the team that trades up into the top spots does so to their detriment. And a ton of times when teams take a top QB standing pat, it is a mixed bag to say the least. And this comes from a guy who wanted one of the top three going back to last year when I advocated for waiting that extra year to get one of them. We were just shitty enough to be mediocre but not shitty enough to be truly shitty.
Am I going to be disappointed if we do? Hell no, I am all about getting our guy. If they think Daniels is that guy and they go after him, I am a Daniels fan. If we get Penix, am a Penix fan. It is pretty much that simple for me. Whoever we take, I want on my team, and I will back him until he is not worth backing. That is me being a fan. Either way, I am not going to be disappointed no matter what we do, because I have zero expectations of what we should do, there is no secret sauce, no one right answer here. There are layers.
BoKnows81 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:01 am
I would imagine it's very well in play. Fuaga or Bowers are my preferred picks at 13 if QB appears to be completely off the table.GUYDON wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:57 am:All this QB talk and watch us stay at 13 and take a tackle lol
Dark Horse » Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:10 am
Or not even at 13 https://x.com/FiresideGiants/status/178312484357715169616 to 88 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:15 am:Obviously this is true. Anybody position can bust, including, you guessed it, quarterback. Ask the Steelers and 49ers about that one. And possibly, the panthers and colts. It really is easy enough, I fully expect we will draft a quarterback, been saying so since the last play of our season.
I don't not expect him to be a starter, ever, because the odds show this is unlikely. That's why I'm not a fan of trading up to get one but if we do I hope we land our future stater. Stated repeatedly I hope whoever we land will be our answer or whoever is on the roster is the answer. Guessing it will be Penix and my hope is we can get him later trading down and acquiring more picks in the process. It's really not at all more complicated than that...