- Congrats: 2 These Raider Fans gave Dark Horse high fives (total 2):
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Dark Horse » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:06 am
I got all of that and I have pointed out myself that he was great in a system that doesn't exist in the NFL. There is nothing anyone can do about those circumstances. The question is whether or not people believe he can run other systems at a high level. But he isn't exclusive in that regard. What happens when Williams has to play in more structure? What happens when Nix isn't given layup throw after layup throw? What happens when Daniels doesn't have the support of an utterly ridiculous WR core? What happens when McCarthy can't rely as heavily on the run game? What I look at in Penix is the fact that he had some level of success under two systems. He had wins over better teams than Indiana in the Big 10 and had very poor offensive talent around him.16 to 88 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:53 am:It appears to me you are missing the point of what he is saying. Who runs the Washington offense and is the quarterback for it? Penix. He doesn't play in a vacuum. Out of all the quarterbacks considered at this point to be the best in the draft he specifically pointed out Penix and Washington.
What he is pointing out is the stuff Penix is doing in college in the Washington offense you don't see in the NFL. He states before that guys that are in a more pro style offense in college have an "edge" going into the NFL. Ipso facto he doesn't know if Penix will translate or be able to translate to the NFL game. He wasn't playing in anything that resembled it.
To make it simple, if Penix was in a different type of college offense that was more of a pro style and he could see him play in it and he looked really good that would be a horse of a different feather. He's not knocking Penix, he's saying he looks good in the Washington offense which doesn't translate to the pros. He's going to have to learn an entirely new game. It's no wonder one of the reason so many of these guys don't make it in the pros.
Raider727 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:13 am
That's a bs excuse you are using because you can say that about any player in the draft.16 to 88 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:02 am:But you are confident that the supposed rookie we may draft who has never taken a snap in the NFL will?
signal » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:13 am
Fair enough. But I am not so certain that AO4 can't bring us to the promise land or that Penix (or whomever) will. And do find all this talk about finding a guy that can compete against Mahommes a tad misleading.Raider727 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:35 am:I like O’Connell and Minshew as QB's who can win games for the Raiders but I'm not confident at all that they will take the Raiders to the promised land and that's all I care about.
Dark Horse » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:16 am
But that's like saying a great Indy car driver can win checkered flag with a base Mustang. It's not happening. Also, with regard to the Chiefs defense, their defense is a gambling style high risk high reward defense that can afford to play that style in part because they are supposed by the offense.signal wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:13 am:Fair enough. But I am not so certain that AO4 can't bring us to the promise land or that Penix (or whomever) will. And do find all this talk about finding a guy that can compete against Mahommes a tad misleading.
Most give Mahommes more credit than he deserves and don't give their D the credit it deserves. In the Superbowl, Mahommes stats were: 26-of-42 passing, 286 yards, two touchdowns, two interceptions, 78.1 passer rating, sacked four times, one rushing score, two fumbles.
During the season the KC offense was ranked 15th in the league in scoring points. About as average as you can get. But their D was second in the league in points allowed.
We keep talking about beating Mahommes. I think we should be talking about beating Andy Reid and the KC team.
Don't get me wrong, Mahommes is a damn good player, but without Andy Ried as their offensive savant and their incredible D...I don't think Mahommes wins anything last year.
The Raiders are the last team to beat the Chiefs and beat them in a game they dearly needed in order to get home field advantage throughout the playoffs. The Raiders beat them with incredible play from the D.
I for one will not be at all pissed if the draft is used to improve the trenches and used to get the best damn football players TT can find and if that means no QB, so be it.
16 to 88 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:16 am
How much longer is this tall tell going to last? From the top for about the 3rd time now?Raider727 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:01 am:We can't expect to score multiple td's on defense and rush for 150+ yards to beat KC, while the QB doesn't complete a pass for 3 qtrs either.
Attyla » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:19 am
So if I am reading this correctly, now a QB who ran 2 different systems successfully is better than a QB who successfully ran 1 system, and we are questioning whether a successful QB can learn a different system?Raider727 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:20 am
It's a QB driven league though and in a passing league you need a franchise QB to build around.signal wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:13 am:Fair enough. But I am not so certain that AO4 can't bring us to the promise land or that Penix (or whomever) will. And do find all this talk about finding a guy that can compete against Mahommes a tad misleading.
Most give Mahommes more credit than he deserves and don't give their D the credit it deserves. In the Superbowl, Mahommes stats were: 26-of-42 passing, 286 yards, two touchdowns, two interceptions, 78.1 passer rating, sacked four times, one rushing score, two fumbles.
During the season the KC offense was ranked 15th in the league in scoring points. About as average as you can get. But their D was second in the league in points allowed.
We keep talking about beating Mahommes. I think we should be talking about beating Andy Reid and the KC team.
Don't get me wrong, Mahommes is a damn good player, but without Andy Ried as their offensive savant and their incredible D...I don't think Mahommes wins anything last year.
The Raiders are the last team to beat the Chiefs and beat them in a game they dearly needed in order to get home field advantage throughout the playoffs. The Raiders beat them with incredible play from the D.
I for one will not be at all pissed if the draft is used to improve the trenches and used to get the best damn football players TT can find and if that means no QB, so be it.
Willmark » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:21 am
We have to start investing in QB In the draft. Unfortunately we are a franchise that has not done so historically.BoKnows81 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:22 am
The game is and has been drifting away from needing a top defense to win. It's becoming more of a luxury than a necessity. And a top defense is definitely not as important as elite play at the QB position.RickRyb wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:50 am:It seems a lot of people believe the only way to beat Mahomes is to have a QB that is close to his talents. I'm of the belief to beat ANY team you need a top defense and an offense that is good enough to put points up. The Raiders don't need the next Mahomes. They just need a team that is better than Kansas City.
Raider727 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:24 am
All I need to remember was Mahommes made some clutch 1st downs with his legs to tie the game and drove his team all the way down to victory when the moments got tough and threw the game winning touchdown.16 to 88 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:16 am:How much longer is this tall tell going to last? From the top for about the 3rd time now?
Per my usual when I read snip it's like this without any context to them whatsoever it intrigues me. So for clarifications sake as I knew it was a tough game for him instead of go off memory I went back and rewatched the game to see what actually transpired. Here is what happened with some notes along the way...
In the almost 3 quarters of football we only attempted 10 passes all of which were obviously incompletions.
3 of the incompletions were off the mark misses(*)
2 drops
1 tipped pass
2 defensive break ups
1 pressure incompletion
1 pressure throw away
* It could be argued that one of those incompletions should have been caught by Adams as it hit him right in the hands, but it was thrown behind him therefore I gave that one a miss.
One of the other misses it could be argued he had to thread the needle and it could easily be argued that that one pass wasn’t a miss because of how tight the coverage was. But again, I marked him down for a miss.
So 3 miss fires and 7 passes that went awry for the reasons stated. Just wanted to clarify for the record it's not like he was missing wildly all night long and/or in that time span.
In the complete game he had 2 other passes that went awry for a total of 12. One was a pressure incompletion and one was throw away caused by, yep, you guessed it... pressure. Is it any wonder the first thing Telesco pointed out in an interview was the OL!?! In that game we attempted to pass 21 times. The least number of attempted passes in one game by Aidan throughout the season.
I attribute this to 3 reasons…
1.) We had already faced them once in the season with Aidan under center so they adjusted their defense accordingly.
2.) We were killing them with the run all night long. White was constantly chewing up big chunks of yards so there was no reason to go to the pass.
3.) The defense was causing them fits all night long. Not only did they keep the score close, they kept them completely in check. There was no reason to go to the pass. Superb strategy by Antonio. Absolutely superb. We have the lead, our defense has them bottlenecked so no need to throw. Run the ball, shorten the game and IF… IF they come back, then we can go to the pass.
While obviously not a mobile QB in that game he made a couple of nifty moves to avoid pressure and either completed a pass or almost completed a pass. And as I have stated several times now what O’Connell lacks in athleticism he makes up for in other areas.
He is constantly under center. Perhaps more than any quarterback I can think of right now in the NFL. His play action fakes are a thing of beauty and he constantly uses them. He’s tall so he can scan the field. Has a quick release and is an accurate passer. And he has the things that TT is looking for, smart, hard worker, driven. I hear people say a lot they want to see if a quarterback is improving as they go along. Well, he hasn’t thrown in interception in his last 134 attempts. That’s 8 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. With a substitute OC, revised playbook, leaky offensive line and spotty running game.
chucker » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:25 am
I would rather we draft a rookie as our future, hopefully top level, starter. That's because I want to move to a guy with more potential upside than our current QB room. I also believe that O'Connell and Minshew are a better QB room than most untested rookies bring you.raiders93 wrote Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:07 pm:Assuming the draft plays out the way it’s expected (bears, commanders, pats, vikes get their guys)… I have a hard time finding more than 5 QB rooms I wouldn’t rather have. Browns. Broncos (assuming they don’t address it). Giants. Saints. I don’t really know who else would have it worse.
signal » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:26 am
The Raiders did beat the Chiefs in a game they dearly wanted to win. So there is that.Dark Horse wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:16 am:But that's like saying a great Indy car driver can win checkered flag with a base Mustang.
16 to 88 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:26 am
Tisk-tisk.Raider727 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:13 am:That's a bs excuse you are using because you can say that about any player in the draft.
I'm not a fan of Minshew and O’Connell's arm strength. I like that Minshew is pretty mobile but he doesn't run a 4.4 and O’Connell is a statue.
16 to 88 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:32 am
And there you have it.Raider727 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:24 am:All I need to remember was Mahommes made some clutch 1st downs with his legs to tie the game and drove his team all the way down to victory when the moments got tough and threw the game winning touchdown.
BoKnows81 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:34 am
You can't compare Kenny Pickett or Trey Lance to any of the top 3 guys coming out this year.16 to 88 wrote Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:26 am:Tisk-tisk.
It is not phony at all. I'm simply pointing out for how many times I don't know now, that just because we draft player "X" does not mean he is the golden ticket. The steelers and the 49ers are two pretty well run organizations. The steelers sat tight and used their first pick two years ago to select Kenny Pickett. Word is because he played at Pittsburgh they had inside information on him. The 49ers gave away the house to move up to #3 to select Trey Lance three years ago. How did that work out for them? Kyle Shanahan a supposed quarterback guru messed up royally. JT and Kurt Warner have no idea how these guys are going to turn out.